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[reddit] Denuvo v3 has been cracked - Page 6  

post #51 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoLDii3 View Post

You're not entitled to any luxury good for free.

Ultimately, I'm entitled to anything I can take and hold. If there is any universal truth, something that's reflected in nearly every successful society and codified into the legal fabric of every nation-state, it's that might makes right. Of course, enlightened self-interest is best served by not being overtly antagonistic to those you depend upon...something that many game publishers seem to forget.

With the level of personal animosity I have for most publishers that use more restrictive forms of DRM, I'm not going to touch their software with a ten foot pole; I don't want to be responsible for anything that might help them out. I hurt them most, with least cost to myself, by pretending their products don't exist whenever possible. Many would secretly love for their software to be pirated more frequently because it would result in free word-of-mouth advertising and a general increase in market share.
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post #52 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestala View Post

They would lose profit. So why should they? They (game publishers/developers) are not a charity, they are a business.

Sales on a variety of distribution platforms have shown that the optimum price for most titles is typically far below MSRP. Most big publishers would make more money, not less, if they reduced prices, because they would sell more than enough copies to offset the reduced per-unit price. The biggest barrier to this is the absurd presumption that a given intangible unit is somehow deserving of some arbitrarily high valuation.

The optimal price, as far as profits go, is generally much closer to 10 dollars than 60. Still, there are numerous perceptions that inflate the industry standard release price...and piracy often gets blamed for lost sales when the market disagrees with the unit valuation of some deluded and self-important corporate officer, or an ignorant developer who thinks their personal labors are worth more, per person, than economic realities dictate.

In the end, we see dramatically inflated prices upon release (safer to start high), so early adopters get screwed (doubly so given the poor quality of many titles upon release), followed by sales and rapid price cuts to get the segment of the market that can't be suckered so easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestala View Post

It's way easier finding 20.000 customers willing to spend 50$ for this game than it is to find 100.000 customers willing to pay 10$. See the problem?

Often the opposite is true. There are very few titles that can move significant units at $50.

Take a look at Steam sales statistics or the revenue of MMOs that have gone free to play.


Very good points. Rep+

The other day the just released Doom was on sale on Steam... for 50% off. Not 10%, not 15% as you'd expect for a just released game, but 50%.

And the idea that developers and publishers do somehow, in the middle of all that amoral shareholder mentality actually preserve a sort of pride in valuing their games at a certain price point is very much true. People just have to look at what EA said around two years ago about having massive sales. And yet most people wait for a sale. That should tell them something, but their awkward pride tells them that they have to keep playing this game of releasing with a higher price and then come down from it gradually.

I would much prefer if the maximum price of a triple A game was no higher than $37.99.

Also, the existence of GOG should make it clear that a lot of people don't want to play this "game". Denuvo and other types of DRM or helper DRM that mandate a "periodic entitlement check" work by treating customers like people on parole. Meanwhile... (look at the picture posted above).
Edited by tpi2007 - 8/9/16 at 9:44am
 
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post #53 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

Also if selling games at $10 each really would make them a lot more profit, they would sell games at $10 each, not $60. The developers and publishers exist for one reason. To make a profit. Therefore, if they would make more profit at $10 each, the games would be $10 each. They don't care about customer loyalty or you as a person, they care about your money.
Even better than that, they can sell for $60 for a few months to grab up any customers at that price point... then drop the price and make money from people that will only buy at lower price points.

Starting at the lower price point only guarantees they will never be able to charge $50-60 to people willing to pay that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insan1tyOne View Post

In my opinion having a "strong" DRM like Denuvo is a good thing, because by the time is gets cracked, most games that are using it are already knocked down to 20-30% off the retail price anyways. Let the day-one buyers have their fun, and then after six months or so if the game is cracked, who cares?
Pretty much agree, it's about the best publishers can hope for in a non-always-online game. Capture sales from any impatient pirates and make it just hard enough that you won't lose easy sales in the launch period to piracy.
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post #54 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Ultimately, I'm entitled to anything I can take and hold. If there is any universal truth, something that's reflected in nearly every successful society and codified into the legal fabric of every nation-state, it's that might makes right.
Eh... no. If that were the case, rape wouldn't be illegal. The fact that you can take something doesn't mean you should take something.
post #55 of 154
so are there any sales figures for these denuvo titles. did the anti-piracy make a noticeable difference? i'm guessing not
post #56 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz2 View Post

so are there any sales figures for these denuvo titles. did the anti-piracy make a noticeable difference? i'm guessing not
I would reckon it actually is. As mentioned earlier (and as I was corrected upon), the non-availability of day one cracks does push some people to go and buy the game, instead of waiting. Now, the number of people that are swayed by this... Not sure if that's been (or is able to be) established.
post #57 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exeed Orbit View Post

Eh... no. If that were the case, rape wouldn't be illegal. The fact that you can take something doesn't mean you should take something.

I don't think you've grasped a single premise of my post.
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post #58 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeio View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

Also if selling games at $10 each really would make them a lot more profit, they would sell games at $10 each, not $60. The developers and publishers exist for one reason. To make a profit. Therefore, if they would make more profit at $10 each, the games would be $10 each. They don't care about customer loyalty or you as a person, they care about your money.
Even better than that, they can sell for $60 for a few months to grab up any customers at that price point... then drop the price and make money from people that will only buy at lower price points.

Starting at the lower price point only guarantees they will never be able to charge $50-60 to people willing to pay that.

Yes and no. You're forgetting to take into account the missed opportunities. People who won't buy that title at $60 on release will want to play something in their free time and may have bought a title for half that from another publisher on a sale (or not), so that's money not in the $60 game publisher's bank not gaining interest and then on top of that you also have to ponder that those people may postpone buying their game when it finally goes on sale because by then there will be new stuff out that they are more interested in, there's another sale or they will still be playing the games that they bought on the sales.
Edited by tpi2007 - 8/9/16 at 9:05am
 
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post #59 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exeed Orbit View Post

Eh... no. If that were the case, rape wouldn't be illegal. The fact that you can take something doesn't mean you should take something.

Actually might does make right. The only reason someone civilized doesn't apply might to steal or rape is because that person will receive in return the collective might of society, nowadays in a more humane form (imprisonment).
post #60 of 154
That argument is pretty price agnostic though no? Even if a game were to release at $30 (or $37.99) and we assume every publisher sees your way, if a consumer still bought a game at 50% off first, then they'd want to play the game they got on sale first anyways, and the rest of what you said would still apply. The only thing that'd change is that x% more people would buy the game than if it priced at $60, and the publisher would have to do the math. Chances are, that's not worth it.

Anyways, for all I see, Denuvo has done its job, even if it has been cracked. The only thing it had to do was make it just difficult enough that in the first two weeks of the game, anyone who wanted the game couldn't just pirate it, and they'd plop down the money. I can't access most game sales tracking sites, but I'm pretty sure the biggest period of sales volume is the first month, and everything after is pretty much gravy. If anything, I view it as good that the publishers can't point to piracy as a bogeyman anymore; if sales figures aren't good, it's because the product isn't good, nothing more, nothing less.

PS - I think the whole "developers would love to see more piracy since it leads to more exposure" is complete bunk. The whole reason for the whole "starving artist" stereotype is because there are so many of them and people have gotten used to the idea of giving them "exposure" as currency instead of just paying for that work.
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