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1.62 static pressure 120mm fan or 0.81 static 140mm fan for intake?

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
This is for an air cooled Define S.

Should I go with 1500rpm 120mm Silent Wings 2 with 1.62 static pressure, or the 1000rpm 140mm Silent Wings 2 with 0.81 static? Air flow and noise ratings are identical. Price is within $1.

I'm wondering if the higher pressure fans would work better with the dust filter. I imagine it would, but what of air flow?
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post #2 of 9
If cfm ratings are the same and one offers higher static pressure I'd go with that. Unfortunately I've found that many claimed numbers are often inaccurate or not tested in identical conditions to other brands, etc.

Just curious, what two models are these fans?
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post #3 of 9
If you can find TY-147A SQ or TY-143 SQ (fi red & orange fis okay), they would be my first choice.
Others I suggest are PH-F140SP, F140XP or F140MP (MP is high pressure fan).

For cool and quiet operation, automatic speed control case fans based on CPU & GPU temps. so they cycle with CPU and GPU cooler fans. This way case flows air as needed to supply what components need. "Ways to Better Cooling" linked in my sig, 4th and 5th articles in index explain how to do it if your motherboard does not have enough fan headers.
post #4 of 9
0.81 is pretty weak for a big case
post #5 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klocek001 View Post

0.81 is pretty weak for a big case
I know, I keep picking on you.
Sorry, but
Case size has absolutely nothing to do with what airflow and pressure rating fan/s need to be to supply adequate airflow for case.
Airflow needed is determined by system component demands, while pressure rating is determined by how restrictive the case vents fan/s will be used in are.

The amount of airflow is determined not by the fan's rated free airflow, because well that is FREE AIRFLOW .. AIRFLOW THE FAN HAS HANGING IN AN OPEN AREA WITH ABSOLUTELY NO RESISTANCE!!

Oh, so you say we are not using the fan in open area like a house fan. Yeah, you are right. we are not. We are using them with fancy grills that restrict the area fan can draw air through and usually have a filter on them as well if they are intake vents .. and all of this is probably dropping the fan's abiilty to move air to about half of what the specificatons say, and that's at full speed. Slow the fan speed down and they flow even less.


But now let us look at how the static pressure rating is even stranger. Static pressure rating is the maximum pressure the fan is pushing when the air stops flowing .. you got it, NO AIRFLOW, NOT AIR MOVEMENT AT ALL!!

If you put a piece of plastic bag over the inside of a exhaust vent, then mount a fan on that vent so plastic is between fan and case, your fan will run at it's static pressure rated limit.

Oh, so now you say you don't want to use the fan like this either because who in there right mind would want their fan blocked so it cannot flow any air. Well, I agree with you!


So now you hopefully are beginning to understand how near to worthless the fan specifications are.

To really be able to know how well the fan will perform we need to have airflow vs pressure graphs combined with fan running at different speeds. With this kind of data we can see how much air the fan moves not only with no resistance at full speed and how much pressure it makes with no airflow at full speed, but for example how much air it will flow at half speed with half of it's rated resistance.

Not many reviewers test at a wide range of resistance points, but we have several who use radiators (which have similar resistance to vents with filters) so we can get a general idea of how well these tested fans will perform in our kinds of applications.

Our own geggeg has website Thermalbench with lots of fan testing and comparisons. Our own ehume does similar testing, as does Cyclops in his "Fans!! All you Ever Wanted .."
thread.

Check them out if you want to get a better idea of how fans actually perform. wink.gif
post #6 of 9
Thread Starter 
Here are the specs:

Be Quiet! Silent Wings 2 140mm:



Be Quiet! Silent Wings 2 120mm:



So with these 2 fans, the 140mm pushes 60cfm @ 0.81 pressure, while the 120mm pushes 50 cfm @ 1.62 pressure. I'm guessing that the 120mm will result in better case air flow due to the dust filters and the static pressure disparity.



Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

If you can find TY-147A SQ or TY-143 SQ (fi red & orange fis okay), they would be my first choice.
Others I suggest are PH-F140SP, F140XP or F140MP (MP is high pressure fan).

For cool and quiet operation, automatic speed control case fans based on CPU & GPU temps. so they cycle with CPU and GPU cooler fans. This way case flows air as needed to supply what components need. "Ways to Better Cooling" linked in my sig, 4th and 5th articles in index explain how to do it if your motherboard does not have enough fan headers.


Doyll, I have all of the original Thermalright TY fans, the 140, 143, and 147. All are the old 150mm wide 120mm mounting holes design. I love these fans but don't want to get the square frame revisions; one, I have a bunch of Phanteks 140MP fans which are about as good as the 1300rpm TYs, and two, I'm looking for 3-pin fans I can just run at max speed without any fan control. I disagree with you about the 140SP (the stock Enthoo Primo fans). They perform well, but they are loud past 700rpms; at 1000rpm+, they are hideously loud. The MP fans are way, WAY better, like +300rpm with less noise better. But even the MPs are too loud for me past 800rpm or so. A part of it is the fact that the Enthoo Primo is a loud case, which is why I'm going back to Fractal's Define series.


This whole idea about going with 120mm static pressure fans over 140mm air flow fans for case intakes came to me from reading old threads where you and Ed Hume talk about this. I know Ed has said in the past he favors 120mm Gentle Typhoons as intakes for the pressure, and you've pointed out that a dust filter can cut air flow by a 1/3.

I don't have a way to measure pressure vs airflow curves, so I need to go on specs/reputation. I'm told Be Quiet! has the best noise-perf on the market, better than Noctua or Noiseblocker.
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post #7 of 9
For case intake fans the prime consideration should be how the fan performs in PULL mode. As in how well it pulls in air past the filters. Do the stats show that? Probably not, which is why this thread is exceedingly important, because it does show that.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1274407/fans-the-most-complete-and-comprehensive-array-of-tests-and-benchmarks
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post #8 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by miklkit View Post

For case intake fans the prime consideration should be how the fan performs in PULL mode. As in how well it pulls in air past the filters. Do the stats show that? Probably not, which is why this thread is exceedingly important, because it does show that.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1274407/fans-the-most-complete-and-comprehensive-array-of-tests-and-benchmarks

Unfortunately, "static pressure" is the new buzz word. How it works, what it means and where it matters are now seemingly unimportant, people just think they need more of it (it sounds a lot like gluten....only people think they need less of that....but they have no idea why). The whole "static pressure rating means better pull capabilities" misconception is going to be here for a while, as is the fact that people completely overlook the fact that many higher SP rated fans only have that rating because they spin faster....even if that pressure rating is at ear splitting noise levels. There are some blade designs that yield very good static pressure coupled with very little tolerance for restriction on the intake side.

Or, I could simply say that you are absolutely correct, and leave it at that.
post #9 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by miklkit View Post

For case intake fans the prime consideration should be how the fan performs in PULL mode. As in how well it pulls in air past the filters. Do the stats show that? Probably not, which is why this thread is exceedingly important, because it does show that.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1274407/fans-the-most-complete-and-comprehensive-array-of-tests-and-benchmarks
Good point! thumb.gif
While many fans pull air very well, some do not or are not as capable .. while some make horrendous noises doing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

Unfortunately, "static pressure" is the new buzz word. How it works, what it means and where it matters are now seemingly unimportant, people just think they need more of it (it sounds a lot like gluten....only people think they need less of that....but they have no idea why). The whole "static pressure rating means better pull capabilities" misconception is going to be here for a while, as is the fact that people completely overlook the fact that many higher SP rated fans only have that rating because they spin faster....even if that pressure rating is at ear splitting noise levels. There are some blade designs that yield very good static pressure coupled with very little tolerance for restriction on the intake side.

Or, I could simply say that you are absolutely correct, and leave it at that.
I agree, 'static pressure rating' is misunderstood. Few people understand it is only the maximum pressure differential the fan can make. I prefer to look at the pressure differential .. the pressure difference between the air pressure in front of fan (fan intake) and the back of fan (fan exhaust) .. The resistance to airflow is what creates this pressure differential, and the resulting flow rate is what we are interested in.

I don't give a tinker's darn what the 'static pressure' rating of a fan is, but will pay hard silver for good airflow with resistance level of typical front grill and filter .. especially at 400-800rpm .. the speed range of a good fan making no audible sound. tongue.gif
Edited by doyll - 8/12/16 at 12:43am
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