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[TOMS] Google Is Building A New Operating System From Scratch: 'Fuschia' - Page 11

post #101 of 122
It seems to me that Microsoft is doing with their Desktop OS market and future, what they did with their Mobile OS.

Microsoft had a solid 20% market share with WinMobile in 2008-2010. Had a Samsung i900 Omnia that I loved and WinMo worked as it should, it was like having a pocket computer,
With WinPhone everything was changed, but I had no problems with Winphone functions or appearance as I migrated to Android. Still staying with Android for tablets and phones.

After Win8.x and it's stupid smartphone functions and ugly and locked down appearance, came Win10 with even worser functions and stupider, uglier and more locked down appearance.
How much patience is Microsoft believing us customer have with any company?

I want more Desktop OS:es to choose from.
What I don't want is a computer from a vendor that only have products/support for Win10 (or OSX).
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post #102 of 122
Oh OCN... I know you can't read titles or articles, and that your hatred of Windows 10 is without bounds, but can we at least pretend that we are tech-savvy enough to distinguish between Microsoft and Google?
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post #103 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post

Has every portion of that new hardware changed in the last 25 years where that code is no longer valid? Did some major new wave of software design denounce abstraction and interfacing while I was sleeping?

No. There is a very big difference between old code and bad code. Being old code does not imply its bad code, nor does being bad code imply its old or new. A well written interface and abstraction doesn't need to be replaced if it still efficiently, and securely performs the task it was written to accomplish.

Your argument at best is a red herring, while what it seems what you are concerned about is the accumulation of technical debt, and conflating it with the thought that it implies old code is inherently bad.

For all of that, you're still talking about Turing machines at the end of the day, and conceptually they CAN'T change much. x86 machines as well as the RISC of ARM are just a smaller subset of instructions to throw on the turing machine, and they haven't changed much either. Rewriting a driver for a new piece of hardware is one thing, but writing the management of the abstracted hardware doesn't need to change much over the years because a HDD is still an HDD, DDR3 is still DDR, a network controller is still a network controller.. etc.. etc.. etc..

It depends on what your requirements are. Lets say you were using an old library that did mass floating point computations. If it was written 25 years ago, it might not have the performance you expect due to the fact that the code might not take advantage of intrinsics, such as AVX (or some other SIMD instruction set). Or, lets say 25 years ago, a library was written that tried to be as cache coherent and at the time it was great. That performance might not hold up over time, since the underlying architecture of CPUs change all the time. You'll still get a performance increase, but not as much as you could get. For example, cache coherency protocols are always changing (MSI, MOSI, MESI, etc.) and taking advantage of them might necessitate rewriting of old code. If performance is a concern, taking advantage of these new features should be a priority and sometimes to take advantage of these changes, the API might need to change.

There are also changes in languages that necessitate rewriting old code. For example, look at the addition of std::atomic in C++11. It basically removes the need for 'volatile' in many instances by inserting memory barriers in your code. This helps implement certain patterns much more easily than before (here is an example: http://preshing.com/20130930/double-checked-locking-is-fixed-in-cpp11/).

An abstraction can be well written given the requirements it had at the time, but requirements change over time and the abstraction should be remodeled to fit those requirements.
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post #104 of 122
If a new OS was written from scratch today, could it efficiently and securely target both ARM & x86 hardware?
     
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post #105 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by firagabird View Post

If a new OS was written from scratch today, could it efficiently and securely target both ARM & x86 hardware?

Maybe. Those Sel4 guys support both ARM and X86.

https://wiki.sel4.systems/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#On_what_hardware_does_seL4_run.3F
post #106 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironman1478 View Post

It depends on what your requirements are. Lets say you were using an old library that did mass floating point computations. If it was written 25 years ago, it might not have the performance you expect due to the fact that the code might not take advantage of intrinsics, such as AVX (or some other SIMD instruction set). Or, lets say 25 years ago, a library was written that tried to be as cache coherent and at the time it was great. That performance might not hold up over time, since the underlying architecture of CPUs change all the time. You'll still get a performance increase, but not as much as you could get. For example, cache coherency protocols are always changing (MSI, MOSI, MESI, etc.) and taking advantage of them might necessitate rewriting of old code. If performance is a concern, taking advantage of these new features should be a priority and sometimes to take advantage of these changes, the API might need to change.

There are also changes in languages that necessitate rewriting old code. For example, look at the addition of std::atomic in C++11. It basically removes the need for 'volatile' in many instances by inserting memory barriers in your code. This helps implement certain patterns much more easily than before (here is an example: http://preshing.com/20130930/double-checked-locking-is-fixed-in-cpp11/).

An abstraction can be well written given the requirements it had at the time, but requirements change over time and the abstraction should be remodeled to fit those requirements.

Can, may, might, could..et al.

You are most definitely correct in the scenarios you put forth, some level of rewriting has the potential to be warranted.

However, you didn't offer any real imperative to counter my point - the previous poster made a logical mistake by assuming old code must be bad code. If a logical fault can be easily demonstrated by a venn diagram, the point shouldn't really need to be driven home quite this hard.

To continue playing devil's advocate for just a bit longer... In all of your examples, there is a chance some old implementations would need to be rewritten (interface and implementation are not interchangeable concepts, and a well written interface should abstract many implementation details from the caller) but there is also a chance compilation with a new flag could achieve the desired results with no changes to the codebase.
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post #107 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Oh OCN... I know you can't read titles or articles, and that your hatred of Windows 10 is without bounds, but can we at least pretend that we are tech-savvy enough to distinguish between Microsoft and Google?

Actually they're all moving towards being emersed into this Social Media sickness, so they are becoming much the same.

It's like soaking a dog-turd into chocolate, then letting everyone know it's a Brand New Flavored Os, full of crunchy goodness arrowheadsmiley.png .

The demise of the original operating system into Facebook like garbage, has indeed hastened the destruction of any decent OS, so we are now seeing the result of all the gob-smacks wanting to facebook instantly with their new Trojan 10/Google style of OS.

Just because it's going to be Google, isn't going to make it any better than Redmond's tragic 10 abortion.
post #108 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrick View Post

It's like soaking a dog-turd into chocolate
Well, there goes my appetite.
    
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post #109 of 122
Can you please correct the thread title, every time I see this thread on the main page I'm thinking Google named their new OS after some sort of Italian pasta a la "Fuschia".
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post #110 of 122
And people think data mining is bad in W10. A unified Google OS would be the biggest data mining OS ever. They already mine the crap out of all their other services.
 
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