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[Sponsored] Logitech G Pro Gaming Mouse Review - by Ino - Page 71

post #701 of 3556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acid_reptile View Post

While i agree with the second part of your post, the thing with the adjusted sens for Y and X is not true. Yes you can do that, but it doesnt help with muscle memory.
Opening post http://www.overclock.net/t/1522415/the-importance-of-sensor-positioning

Exhibit F just shows that if you use a distance of pivot point to sensor position that is 2/3 of the desired arc length your angle will be 86°...
I've argued this before, the math there makes no sense in terms of better or worse, one distance is not more consistent than the other. The comparison that length on the x-axis of a projection of said arc is ideal is just saying "I think it is better to reach the arc length that I want to do with a 90° turn"... Do the same calculation but this time say you want to move 24cm, suddenly arc C (which means diameter 16cm) doesn't look that good anymore for that.
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post #702 of 3556
But the added sensitivity being constant is the problem. It just cant help in all situations swipes, flix , 180 turns etc. Adjusting sensor position will remain the much superior solution. No graphs needed for that.

With the dm1 pro i wasnt even able to do 180 turns properly with its 6,5 cm sensor postion. It always ended up with 10- 30% error. No matter how many days or weeks i got used to the same sensitivty. Only when i changed the sensor position to 6,1cm my 180 turn felt fine again as on other mice.

I really cba playing with low sens only to be able to turn in game properly.
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post #703 of 3556
What you seem to be missing is that people judge the distance they have moved the mouse with different parts of their hand I assume at least. I feel like it is common though certainly not universal to use one of your fingers such as your thumb where the pressure is applied as a judgement for motion. Unless you have extremely small hands or a very weird grip that is not going to be 65mm from your wrist. For me that is more like 120mm from my wrist. If I was trying to use the center of my palm as my judgement for motion 65mm might be about correct, but it is much harder for me personally to judge the motion of that part of my hand than a finger especially for small corrections which is when I would be using my wrist. Trying to make small corrections with the sensor in the center of my palm feels like trying to write a letter with a pencil on an axe handle. Also even if 2 people are trying to judge motion with the exact same part of their hand this will vary more than +/-5mm based on hand size. Sensor position preference both measured on the mouse and from the base of the wrist will vary a lot based on grip style, hand size, and the persons reference point for motion of the mouse.
post #704 of 3556
Quote:
Originally Posted by acid_reptile View Post

While i agree with the second part of your post, the thing with the adjusted sens for Y and X is not true. Yes you can do that, but it doesnt help with muscle memory.

Opening post http://www.overclock.net/t/1522415/the-importance-of-sensor-positioning

I don''t rely on "muscle memory" to aim, I rely on technique, which is how I can do fine with any mouse I can hold. I can take a long break from gaming, change my mouse before playing, yet still not have an issue with sensor position / muscle memory. For weapons that are hit scan, I simply center targets on screen without relying on crosshairs/sights. In this case, click latency is more an issue than sensor position.

I prefer the sensor to be as far forward as physically possible because in certain scenarios I use my wrist. Using my wrist over my arm allows me to aim more consistently and faster. If a target pops out of cover I prefer to use my wrist for motion, that changes if the sensor is closer to the rear of the mouse.

For tiny corrections, I will use fingers for motion. So I don't want a huge mouse.
post #705 of 3556
there is no universally optimal position since everyone has a different grip, hand size, arm lenghth, etc...

but it's not something that can be compensated by a change in sensitivity unless you never change your pivot point when using the mouse. which obviously doesn't apply to anyone

so it's not the same as 450 vs 400dpi, because in that case you can compensate by changing in-game sens.
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post #706 of 3556
To me high up sensor position that would be close to the tips of my fingers would feel like I'd be writing with a pencil by holding it from the other end instead of close to the tip. Since I don't really control the mouse at all with fingers in sideways movement (I push and pull it though), I use wrist mainly for tracking or precise aiming. Somehow I get the best results when the sensor ends up being about precisely below the point where my palm divides to index and middle fingers. This isn't subtle either, since I never achieved the accuracy with orig. FK nor KPM that I get with Kinzu, G100s and Rival 100. I can get used to flicks but tracking is just off since the further the sensor goes, the more pronounced the errors from wrist pivoting comes for me. The same reason why I need to drop my sensitivity from ~40ish/360 to ~70-80ish when playing with elbow movement only.
post #707 of 3556
Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

I don''t rely on "muscle memory" to aim, I rely on technique

What's the difference?
post #708 of 3556
He's saying he relies more on positioning and the occasional correction.

I'm the opposite, I flick fast and track tenaciously, all while focusing more on dodging enemy fire rather then landing a killing blow. I once had a moment in CS where I stood in the middle of nuke bottom bomb area and it took 4 people multiple clips to deal with me and during that time I took out 2 of them. Even my teammate was like: "Corrupt you regless son of..."

It's possible to dodge enemy fire from multiple angles if you have a good sense of direction in shooters.

Take UT/Quake instagib for instance, you can practice against someone by simply not going for a shot and try to time theirs and stay alive for quite some time.

Every person has a target acquisition time. You can literally stare at them, let them line up a shot and then strafe out of it exactly the second they're about to press mouse1. Repeat again and again and after every failed burst you have an opening where you can often get a clean shot on them.

Same when you've got 1 to your right and 1 in front, time wsda dodges based on sound for the guy in your side and use visual timing for the guy in front. The second the guy on the right misses, you've got a window of time to focus the guy in front of you.

But like I said earlier, I've somewhat lost interest in competitive play, it would probably take me 1 to 2 months of excessive TDM'ing to at least get anywhere near what I used to be.

It's something that works if you're a person that has average reflexes but good coordination/precision. Probably why that circular UT instagib map thing worked for me, because it helps you get into the "zone" for this particular playstyle.

Also, some games don't even require you to fire a gun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFnIlDvC_mE / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHp5dqQJfZI
Edited by CorruptBE - 8/24/16 at 11:29am
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post #709 of 3556
Damn son, people ignoring muscle memory and dodging fire from 4 enemies at once standing out in the open.

Screw modern mice and all that nonsense , just give me a ballmouse and teach me your ways. Apparently some people in here transcended past all that, perfect mouse without filters and accel , shape and buttons and sensor and all that. With the right technique you can even play with a mouse that changes its dpi every 2 seconds.



I really appreciate to have guys like Ino here in this forum. Because some of you guys, holy crap rolleyes.gif
Edited by Athrutep - 8/24/16 at 12:28pm
post #710 of 3556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athrutep View Post

perfect mouse without filters and accel

A filter is a no go for me since I don't want the extra motion latency (it's why I avoided the G400s) but acceleration is something I've used for a long time on and off, and I have no problem with it. I even used the Kinzu v1 with negative acceleration at the 400 (actually 500) DPI step without a problem.
    
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