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post #891 of 3556
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsx3 View Post

didn't that kid rise to fame using a Sensei raw? xD
I believe so yes

Edit:I think simple and jw both did as well off the top of my head
Edited by Tmfs - 8/28/16 at 4:42am
post #892 of 3556
Then its funny because a majority of this forum wouldn't be caught dead using that mouse solely due to sensor choice. Not saying that he can't frag with the Sensei Raw, it's just theres cognitive bias when it comes to pro player input. The same way a product tester looks for a set criteria before writing something off. More or less subjectivity.
post #893 of 3556
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsx3 View Post

Then its funny because a majority of this forum wouldn't be caught dead using that mouse solely due to sensor choice. Not saying that he can't frag with the Sensei Raw, it's just theres cognitive bias when it comes to pro player input. The same way a product tester looks for a set criteria before writing something off. More or less subjectivity.

Suppose I'm an exception then. Sensei Raw is an excellent mouse and i still prefer it over every other mouse out there (despite "flawed" sensor values/measurements). People are a little bit to nerdy regarding sensor pickiness in this forum (unjustified and highly exaggerated in terms of actual performance output in reality, in many cases). That however is not a negative thing as in depth nerd talk is what makes this forum great smile.gif. One will aim and play just as well with a ADNS 9500 as a PMW 3366 which again proves that a perfect shape + sensor position> .
Edited by Karz - 8/28/16 at 5:16am
post #894 of 3556
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karz View Post

Suppose I'm an exception then. Sensei Raw is an excellent mouse and i still prefer it over every other mouse out there (despite "flawed" sensor values/measurements). People are a little bit to nerdy regarding sensor pickiness in this forum (unjustified and highly exaggerated in terms of actual performance output in reality, in many cases). That however is not a negative thing as in depth nerd talk is what makes this forum great smile.gif. One will aim and play just as well with a ADNS 9500 as a PMW 3366 which again proves that a perfect shape + sensor position> .

The thing is that you can easily prove the accuracy variance in the sensei raw, and it really is bad for me.
(Plus I don't think the shape of the sensei is better than the FK1(+) or ZA11. If I wanted the sensei shape I'd take a DM1 Pro (S) or Revel over it any day.)

Many other claims about sensor performance can't be easily proven and are often used incorrectly, like smoothing for example.
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post #895 of 3556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karz View Post

Suppose I'm an exception then. Sensei Raw is an excellent mouse and i still prefer it over every other mouse out there (despite "flawed" sensor values/measurements). People are a little bit to nerdy regarding sensor pickiness in this forum (unjustified and highly exaggerated in terms of actual performance output in reality, in many cases). That however is not a negative thing as in depth nerd talk is what makes this forum great smile.gif. One will aim and play just as well with a ADNS 9500 as a PMW 3366 which again proves that a perfect shape + sensor position> .


Oh.. I'm not going to disagree. I just find it hilarious that certain influences outweigh personal subjectivity on both ends of the spectrum. tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by ino 
Many other claims about sensor performance can't be easily proven and are often used incorrectly, like smoothing for example.

The issue imho are when tolerances are factored into the equation and stack with each other. I don't really want add more fuel to the fire, but not all 3366's feel exactly the same biggrin.gif
Edited by jsx3 - 8/28/16 at 8:56am
post #896 of 3556
And now I wait for the release.
post #897 of 3556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ino. View Post

The thing is that you can easily prove the accuracy variance in the sensei raw, and it really is bad for me.
(Plus I don't think the shape of the sensei is better than the FK1(+) or ZA11. If I wanted the sensei shape I'd take a DM1 Pro (S) or Revel over it any day.)

Many other claims about sensor performance can't be easily proven and are often used incorrectly, like smoothing for example.

Well I can imagine it being bad in TF2.

I tended to use 2 mice: Sensei Raw for games where precision was more important then speed or accuracy (CSGO for example) and the FK2 where I needed more consistency during speedy maneuvers, jumping, ... (Quake, ...)

While the mouse wasn't a problem in CS, in Quake I would constantly overflick and what not with the Sensei.

Depending on the use case, the Sensei Raw can work imo.
Edited by CorruptBE - 8/28/16 at 6:34am
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post #898 of 3556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ino. View Post

The thing is that you can easily prove the accuracy variance in the sensei raw, and it really is bad for me.
(Plus I don't think the shape of the sensei is better than the FK1(+) or ZA11. If I wanted the sensei shape I'd take a DM1 Pro (S) or Revel over it any day.)

Many other claims about sensor performance can't be easily proven and are often used incorrectly, like smoothing for example.

Ofc, shape is personal and i do understand if you prefer other shapes.
Yeah Sensei sensor flaw is proven without a doubt (but the question is, is it transfered in real time gaming), but if people proclaim they play noticably worse with it, i simply can't believe that as i've done several accuracy tests with Sensei compared to countless other so-called perfect sensor mice (in high lvl gameplay real time but also vs bots, to get exactly the same scenario in each case and each mouse). I simply can't, how much i try, get worse accuracy numbers (or any decline in player performance) with Sensei compared to "perf" sensor mice. Sensitivity aspects "could" impact such results (if someone use high sens), but if someone use 30cm/360 or over (semi-low to low sens), you won't get worse results with a Sensei over other mice, other than placebo or brought upon self imagination being overly obessed knowing that the sensor isen't perfect by numbers. Further more, people in general have a falsified picture of accel, that it's bad for muscle memory. That proclaim is false provided that the accel curve is constant/consistent.

Regarding smoothing, i agree completely. Some ppl detest smoothing, but again, in reality, i can't see the disadvantage with smoothing contra non smoothing from a performance aspect from years of testing. Diagonal aiming/twitch shots are at a disadvatage with smoothing on, but the percentage that disadvatage provide is minimal and hardly noticable/game breaking. I would even say you could in general (outside of what's mentioned) aim somewhat better with smoothing on, in terms of e.g hit scan weapon accuracy. In either case we are talking minimal numbers here.

Btw, how is G pro compared to for example G1 (love that shape) shapewise? Does it feel the same, smaller, bigger?
Edited by Karz - 8/28/16 at 8:31am
post #899 of 3556
Ino, did you notice any variance of sensor responsiveness in the g pro compared to the g303
post #900 of 3556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karz View Post


Btw, how is G pro compared to for example G1 (love that shape) shapewise? Does it feel the same, smaller, bigger?

G1 feels a lot flatter/more narrow. G Pro.. Wider.. Closest to G100/s, but more filled out imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldc0ffee View Post

Ino, did you notice any variance of sensor responsiveness in the g pro compared to the g303

I'm not Ino, but this question is really situational. He can answer and say they felt the same, but there are always going to be variables between products. You can take a handfull of G pro mice and come back with different conclusions. Maybe.. 5 of them feel exactly the same, maybe 1 feels off or different compared to the rest of the pile etc...
Edited by jsx3 - 8/28/16 at 8:47am
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