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[Videocardz] Leaked Zen slides - Identical performance to Broadwell-E - Page 8

post #71 of 132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

I always thought about that... but the Jaguar CPUs in the X1 and PS4 are slightly different... the X1, both modules are right next to each other. The PS4 has them split quite a bit apart by the cache or something, but from what we can tell, they both perform the same at the same clock speed.

I would imagine AMD took care of that issue or it would have split up Zen like that.
I mean, it's just physics. There's going to more latency the farther apart the two are. I don't know what AMD could do in that regard.

However, in the example you provided, they are both still two separate clusters, even if they are a different distance apart. while Intel's designs have them sit in a single cluster. That should be an inherent latency advantage.
Edited by lolerk52 - 8/18/16 at 8:09am
post #72 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolerk52 View Post

I mean, it's just physics. There's going to more latency the farther apart the two are. I don't know what AMD could do in that regard.

Actually, my mistake... both the X1 and PS4 have them split... but the X1 is closer and the PS4 is split further apart... but yeah... this would be a huge design criteria for AMD... but I think this only matter for L3 cache... ? I could be wrong... biggrin.gif
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post #73 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolerk52 View Post

Both have the same core count and the same thread count. There's nothing that should give AMD the advantage here. Quite the opposite actually, because Zen is two separate 4 core clusters, which would add some communication delays between the two clusters, so theoretically it should do better in up to 8 threads (4 cores) relatively.
No one is talking about advantages, only about performance that was not tested for a scenario where their consumer CPU had to improve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Both zen ES and the BW-E octocore are SMT designs with 8 cores that can be seen as 16 logical threads. If Zen trails BW in ST performance that would mean it makes up for it in superior SMT scaling. Frankly, this sounds improbable - Intel has been working on their SMT tech for more than 14 years.i doubt AMD can surpass them with their first attempt. It is more likely that zen has a slight ST perf advantage here and BW makes up for it with superior SMT scaling.
If Broadwell has better Multithreaded scaling it should be beating AMD instead matching at same core/clock count/frequency? and the point of the sentence was you could get as good Mulithread performance but no test has done a Singlecore/thread comparison
Edited by PontiacGTX - 8/18/16 at 8:15am
post #74 of 132
Looks beastly.
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post #75 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolerk52 View Post

I mean, it's just physics. There's going to more latency the farther apart the two are. I don't know what AMD could do in that regard.

However, in the example you provided, they are both still two separate clusters, even if they are a different distance apart. while Intel's designs have them sit in a single cluster. That should be an inherent latency advantage.

Yeah, just did some googleing:

"The L2 cache is actually split in two, one for each cluster, and communicating from each cluster to its own L2 cache takes 26 cycles. Communication between a cluster and the L2 cache attached to the other cluster is much slower, taking 190 cycles."

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/03/11/naughty-dog-explains-ps4s-cpu-memory-and-more-in-detail-and-how-they-can-make-them-run-really-fast/

But the PS4 has NO L3 cache... so... what is the L3 latency for modern Intel CPUs?

I'm sure AMD has got that under control if they're planning 32 and 64 core versions... with as the article pointed out... with better branch prediction and making sure the right code is in the right L2 cache.
Edited by umeng2002 - 8/18/16 at 8:19am
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post #76 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidelite10 View Post

I guess I didn't make my point properly, I really REALLY want this chip to be a monster.

But what they're showing is they can't meet intel, they have to lower that expectation to their level.
This is the only logical outcome/theory from this. AMD might have made an excellent whitebox chip for routers/firewalls if this has AES(can't remember if it does) but they threw in the towel when they downclocked to show similar performance instead of overclocking to meet intels standard.

It's just like a car, compare a twin-charged mustang to a toyota cilica, they'll reach 20 mph at around the same time but the mustang is a sub 11 second car.

To be fair, they haven't shown you anything to suggest that Zen cannot clock beyond 3GHz. You are inferring from a lack of a test and drawing a conclusion. It's absolutely the right question -- how high can Zen go now, that multi-threading IPC performance is on par with Intel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by p4inkill3r View Post

Looks beastly.
So? Broadwell-E has BEEN beastly for nearly 3 months.
Edited by mouacyk - 8/18/16 at 8:23am
post #77 of 132
So, what's the blender benchmark about? Can we estimate gaming performance based on that, or it measures something else?

Also I hope there will be a hexa-core soon to follow. I don't rly need 8c/16t
post #78 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouacyk View Post

To be fair, they haven't shown you anything to suggest that Zen cannot clock beyond 3GHz. You are inferring from a lack of a test and drawing a conclusion. It's absolutely the right question -- how high can Zen go now, that multi-threading IPC performance is on par with Intel?

Right, sure the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
However, if it could clock to intel's level why wouldn't they show it?
To me this sets off alarms
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post #79 of 132
Not a bad thing if it can match Broadwell-E IPC. 3.0Ghz comparison seems little concerning but hopefully final version brings up some more. At least Zen looks like it is real alternative to Intel counterpart than Bulldozer ever was.
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post #80 of 132
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha-Nocri View Post

So, what's the blender benchmark about? Can we estimate gaming performance based on that, or it measures something else?

Also I hope there will be a hexa-core soon to follow. I don't rly need 8c/16t
Blender is quite heavy on FP performance IIRC, which games are absolutely not.
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