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[Ars] Nvidia calls out Intel for cheating in Xeon Phi vs. GPU benchmarks - Page 10

post #91 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTurn View Post

970 3.5GB advertised as 4GB

That's not cheating on a benchmark. Nvidia rewrote code for running 3dmark03 and got called out by the developer.

Promised driver updates that never came dissapointing as that may be to users aren't cheating on a benchmark.
    
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post #92 of 101
now i wonder if amd is ask to support a side, which will be? biggrin.gif
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post #93 of 101
Thread Starter 
Matrox
post #94 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Well physically the card has 4GB. How it was distributed is like saying a phone has 64GB of storage but not saying that 10GB is saved to the OS. As long as it performed as you expect it to be, not really an issue at the end of the line.
The 970 sold extremely well regardless of the 3.5GB issue.
It can do it via software. They never said full hardware support for async compute if I remember right.
It just doesn't lose performance as much as AMD gains. Still does DX12.

I'm not sure about other phones but my Galaxy s4 and s6 had a warning that some of it's advertised capacity was used for the OS, I believe iPhones do this also.

I thought Nvidia has preemption and not async?
Quote:
Well although it is an async compute feature – and it’s a good way to get time-critical independent tasks started right away – its purpose isn’t to improve concurrency.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10325/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-and-1070-founders-edition-review/10

With Nvidia going as far as having full async disabled at a driver level.
Doesn't full DX12 support require async be active? Because iirc Nvidia went as far as saying AMD didn't have full DX12 support and they did.

Cheating the customer through false advertising is still cheating, but if we're talking semantics specifically benchmarks.
I know of no other benchmark shenanigans so I withdraw my original comment.

It doesn't matter if they sold well when discussing something of this nature, what does sales have to do with cheating?
If sales matter then Intel is right and Nvidia is wrong regarding the topic of this thread.

I hope Nvidia response back with some proof... Is this something the likes of PCPer can get involved in and see if what Nvidia states is founded and factual?
 
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post #95 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTurn View Post

I'm not sure about other phones but my Galaxy s4 and s6 had a warning that some of it's advertised capacity was used for the OS, I believe iPhones do this also.

I thought Nvidia has preemption and not async?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10325/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-and-1070-founders-edition-review/10

With Nvidia going as far as having full async disabled at a driver level.
Doesn't full DX12 support require async be active? Because iirc Nvidia went as far as saying AMD didn't have full DX12 support and they did.

Cheating the customer through false advertising is still cheating, but if we're talking semantics specifically benchmarks.
I know of no other benchmark shenanigans so I withdraw my original comment.

It doesn't matter if they sold well when discussing something of this nature, what does sales have to do with cheating?
If sales matter then Intel is right and Nvidia is wrong regarding the topic of this thread.

I hope Nvidia response back with some proof... Is this something the likes of PCPer can get involved in and see if what Nvidia states is founded and factual?

dx12 does state async as a feature, but doesn't necessary state how its post to function on the hardware level. nvidia since keplar ditched a lot of the parallelism functionality that fermi (ironically gcn shares A LOT in common with fermi) brought and downplayed compute in games so since keplar and above, nvidia hardware cannot do compute + graphics in parallel at the same exact time. it can do both, but in a single line, one after another by context switching. so it stops one action and switches to another, and vice versa.

pascal brought improvements with nvidia's context switching with dynamic load balancing. it improved context switching on pascal, but is still no where close to the level of efficiency of running compute + graphics in parallel at the same exact time.

not running async in parallel really defeats the purpose of async which is increased performance.

async is to nvidia what tessellation has to been to amd. like tessellation, the amount used, if any, is up to the developers. nvidia can disable the functionality via the drivers if they choose to, which they have for a number of games and series of cards. like 3dmark time spy maxwell and keplar async is disabled. doom vulkan all series of cards async is disabled.

but so far, like tessellation in dx11, async has been happily welcomed and quickly adopted by developers for dx12 and vulkan titles.
Edited by orlfman - 8/19/16 at 12:59pm
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post #96 of 101
Nvidia called someone else out for cheating on benchmarks? lachen.gif
     
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post #97 of 101
Thread Starter 
But how could it be cheating when they are comparing actual products. Intel just isn't comparing its latest to Nvidia's latest, but the comparison in and of itself are pretty accurate
post #98 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by huzzug View Post

But how could it be cheating when they are comparing actual products. Intel just isn't comparing its latest to Nvidia's latest, but the comparison in and of itself are pretty accurate

Right, but look at it from, let's say a cell phone perspective. Would you compare an iphone 6 from 2015 to a samsung galaxy s2 from 2012? Of course it wouldn't be a fair fight. It's just a simple analogy that could be applied across any product range, but the point is certainly clear.

Now, on the other hand. Nvidia has been in deep learning for a few generations and it seems like intel is just starting out by buying out some promising companies in the field. That could mean that intel has been caught off guard in the field, so they're fighting dirty.
Edited by axiumone - 8/19/16 at 8:28pm
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post #99 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Well physically the card has 4GB. How it was distributed is like saying a phone has 64GB of storage but not saying that 10GB is saved to the OS. As long as it performed as you expect it to be, not really an issue at the end of the line.
The 970 sold extremely well regardless of the 3.5GB issue.
It can do it via software. They never said full hardware support for async compute if I remember right.
It just doesn't lose performance as much as AMD gains. Still does DX12.

The card was sold as having a 2 MB cache and 64 ROPs. Actual testing reveled the card only has 1792 KB cache and 56 ROPS, on top of the 3.5 gb higher speed ram and the last .5 gb being lower speed. They are still working out the settlement of the class action lawsuit it took to force them to rectify the situation. As someone who bought the card, I have little sympathy for Nvidia crying foul about misleading advertisements.
post #100 of 101
Quote:
Intel blasts back at Nvidia, saying Xeon dominates 97% of A.I. servers

http://venturebeat.com/2016/08/23/intel-blasts-back-at-nvidia-saying-xeon-dominates-97-of-a-i-servers/

It continues...
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