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[Techreport] Nvidia makes its GTX 1060 3GB card official - Page 14

post #131 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMX70 View Post

Some day people might understand that HBM, at least with AMD, works differently than GDDR5... I actually laugh every time I see these 2 things compared. One does not equal the other in performance or UTILIZATION. The FuryX is completely irrelevant to any argument involving this thread.

Links?

HBM clearly offers a plethora more bandwidth, but it doesn't have some magical game changing capacity. 4gb is 4gb of vram.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

More like they are willingly ignorant. Mentioning any Fury class card is just pure fanboyism. We have had enough of this troll discussions over the last year.

The 1060 is not much slower than a Fury X let alone vanilla Fury at 1080p, not much at all - especially if people overclock it. What is ignorant about it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

Theoretically the small GTX1060 can outmatch the STOCK RX480 in non-memory-limited scenarios, while having way less power consumption. It will be a match of personal preference then.

Yes, personal preference. Do I save pennies each month and go with a card with less vram, and have to replace it earlier due to that limitation or do I spend a few more pennies each month on power and get a card that will not need to replaced as quickly and has better DX12 performance? You be the judge on which is more cost effective. $200 card buyers typically do not replace their cards nearly as often as most on this site do.

But hey, I could have bought a GTX780 or a 290X. My "personal preference" (aka using long term logic in my case) has surely proven I've made the right choice. Feels good to match a 980 or beat it especially as the res goes up. Feels real good to even see my previous 7970ghz hanging within a frame or so of the 780 and Titan as well in many cases now.
Edited by SoloCamo - 8/20/16 at 4:19pm
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post #132 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMX70 View Post

Some day people might understand that HBM, at least with AMD, works differently than GDDR5... I actually laugh every time I see these 2 things compared. One does not equal the other in performance or UTILIZATION. .

4GB of HBM has the capacity to hold more than 34359738368 bits of data? rolleyes.gif
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post #133 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkenietz View Post

I don't think power consumption is going to be all that low, I'm thinking somewhere around 90-110w

Also possible!
The actual power consumption will of course change depending on the used game or scenarios like burn-in tests. One fact should remain:
"the GTX 1060 3Gb will probably consume the least amount of all new Finfet-cards in the class of GTX 970 / R9-390 or faster"

The exact numbers will have to be tested in each review. There will surely be cards more leaned torwards HTPC or 1080p profiles. I am eager to see, how much 3GB less VRAM actuall matter in terms of consumption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

Links?

HBM clearly offers a plethora more bandwidth, but it doesn't have some magical game changing capacity. 4gb is 4gb of vram.
The 1060 is not much slower than a Fury X let alone vanilla Fury at 1080p, not much at all - especially if people overclock it. What is ignorant about it?

Stop with the Fiji stuff already!
The Fury series was very poor because of the 1440p attempt of AMD. There the amount of VRAM was not enough from the get go. Nobody got the cards for 1080p at all. That was the region the R9-390 or 390X (or predecessor) were for. HBM and Fiji suffer in the lower resolutions and have to be cherry picked too. Not to mention the strange fluctuation in their driver performance.

The only card worth in this series was the NANO, but it was sold too expensive to matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

Yes, personal preference. Do I save pennies each month and go with a card with less vram, and have to replace it earlier due to that limitation or do I spend a few more pennies each month on power and get a card that will not need to replaced as quickly and has better DX12 performance? You be the judge on which is more cost effective. $200 card buyers typically do not replace their cards nearly as often as most on this site do.

DX12 performance is a red hering. If the low-level APIs develop as slow as the older DX10 / DX11 adaptations, it will take another 2-3 years to land for the majority of games. Until then we all may be forced to upgrade again to newer generations anyways. Most buy what they can get now. Too bad for AMD that almost all the games out ther are based on DX11.

What you do not accept is the fact, that there are so many gamers out there who will never go in the "ULTRA" settings. Think about all those APU and Notebook gamers or everyone with older outdated GPUs. Their machines suck, which they already know and feel. When their patience reaches the limit, they go to Amazon, Newegg or whatever plattform and buy the cheapest + newest GPU they can find.

Most of them will either decide for any 4GB RX-series or a 3GB 1060, depending on their personal experience / preference. Both options are totally legit because those gamers will never crank up the settings enough to fully fill the VRAM. Funny enough is that these buyers will be happy with their purchase and feel insulted if someone like you is talking rubbish about them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

But hey, I could have bought a GTX780 or a 290X. My "personal preference" (aka using long term logic in my case) has surely proven I've made the right choice. Feels good to match a 980 or beat it especially as the res goes up. Feels real good to even see my previous 7970ghz hanging within a frame or so of the 780 and Titan as well in many cases now.

Don't be childish!
The GTX 780 and 290X are ancient and consume large amounts of energy and get hot alot. Nobody buys them as new cards nowadays. Perchance you inherit those cards from friends or family, but those will not fit in any computer because of the 8+6pin power configuration.

What you also forget is that the 980 class cards did cost way over $500 (we had prices around 569 Euro in Europe!!!). Now those cards have cheaper successors the mainstream can afford. Of course they will take the chance. The memory capacity will not matter at all because the performance they get is more they will ever need. In 2-5 years they will upgrade again and repeat the cycle.

It's OK if you bought some of this once powerful flagships. Please don't make the mistake to talk down on those people who never had the money or the need to buy the same cards years ago.
Edited by Hardware Hoshi - 8/20/16 at 5:53pm
post #134 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

Stop with the Fiji stuff already!
The Fury series was very poor because of the 1440p attempt of AMD. There the amount of VRAM was not enough from the get go. Nobody got the cards for 1080p at all. That was the region the R9-390 or 390X (or predecessor) were for. HBM and Fiji suffer in the lower resolutions and have to be cherry picked too. Not to mention the strange fluctuation in their driver performance.

The only card worth in this series was the NANO, but it was sold too expensive to matter.

So 4gb wasn't enough on the Fury X when it launched over a year ago for 1440p, but a card coming out soon with 1gb less vram and is capable of 1440p fine but aimed at 1080p has more than enough vram? Let's think about that for a moment...especially with all the new titles coming out soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

DX12 performance is a red hering. If the low-level APIs develop as slow as the older DX10 / DX11 adaptations, it will take another 2-3 years to land for the majority of games. Until then we all may be forced to upgrade again to newer generations anyways. Most buy what they can get now. Too bad for AMD that almost all the games out ther are based on DX11.

If you've even remotely kept up on DX12 / Vulkan you would see that both are already being pushed far faster than DX11 let alone DX10 were. I've been using Mantle on BF4, DX12 on Forza, Killer Instinct, Vulkan on DOTA 2 as well, which is by far one of, if not the biggest game out there as far as popularity goes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

What you do not accept is the fact, that there are so many gamers out there who will never go in the "ULTRA" settings. Think about all those APU and Notebook gamers or everyone with older outdated GPUs. Their machines suck, which they already know and feel. When their patience reaches the limit, they go to Amazon, Newegg or whatever plattform and buy the cheapest + newest GPU they can find.

Most of them will either decide for any 4GB RX-series or a 3GB 1060, depending on their personal experience / preference. Both options are totally legit because those gamers will never crank up the settings enough to fully fill the VRAM. Funny enough is that these buyers will be happy with their purchase and feel insulted if someone like you is talking rubbish about them.

And I call those people idiots. No, I take that back, I call them willfully ignorant. Sorry, I'm not out to spare anyone's feelings if they feel insulted because they are too dense to do a hair's worth of research before dropping $200. Besides, the 1060 can push the settings with ease., It's faster at 1080p than my 290x by a good deal in most games and I use my 290x at 4k and 1440p without issue. You are telling me these people won't crank the settings up? Why would they bother getting a new card then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

Don't be childish!
The GTX 780 and 290X are ancient and consume large amounts of energy and get hot alot. Nobody buys them as new cards nowadays. Perchance you inherit those cards from friends or family, but those will not fit in any computer because of the 8+6pin power configuration.

What you also forget is that the 980 class cards did cost way over $500 (we had prices around 569 Euro in Europe!!!). Now those cards have cheaper successors the mainstream can afford. Of course they will take the chance. The memory capacity will not matter at all because the performance they get is more they will ever need. In 2-5 years they will upgrade again and repeat the cycle.

It's OK if you bought some of this once powerful flagships. Please don't make the mistake to talk down on those people who never had the money or the need to buy the same cards years ago.

My point is the 780 is a laughing stock now and the 3gb is a real limitation now. Do you really think a 3gb card is going to last 2 years on new titles, let alone in 5 years? I bought my card 3 years ago and it's going to be more useful than a brand new 3gb 1060 for new games. So you may call my 290x ancient all you like, and by gpu performance standards it is, but the fact remains that it's performance is not limited by vram amount. This further proves the idiocy of buying a brand new unreleased card that has such a limitation out of the gate when it has more than enough power to utilize more.
Edited by SoloCamo - 8/20/16 at 6:10pm
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post #135 of 332
People will recommend the 3GB 1060, but none of them will purchase it if they're in the market for a 1060.

Just as it was with the 960:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
post #136 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

I've been using ... Vulkan on DOTA 2


That is nothing to brag about lachen.gif
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post #137 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

That is nothing to brag about lachen.gif

It is when your laptop has a 15w TDP A8 6410. Makes the game far more playable.
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post #138 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

So 4gb wasn't enough on the Fury X when it launched over a year ago for 1440p, but a card coming out soon with 1gb less vram and is capable of 1440p fine but aimed at 1080p has more than enough vram? Let's think about that for a moment...especially with all the new titles coming out soon.

I repeat this as often as you wish:
-4Gb was never enough for 1440p is a fact, which is proven today
-3GB is enough for most 1080p games

I am going as far and say some games will even be able to run at 1440p if the graphic settings are moderate. We are in a strange situaton right now. You hear alot about 6GB would not be enough for 1440p. At some point we must shut off the fearmongering about VRAM shortage. There is also no need to discuss new titles with huge amounts of wasted ressources, bad console ports or just garbage tier games using way more ressources they actually need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

If you've even remotely kept up on DX12 / Vulkan you would see that both are already being pushed far faster than DX11 let alone DX10 were. I've been using Mantle on BF4, DX12 on Forza, Killer Instinct, Vulkan on DOTA 2 as well, which is by far one of, if not the biggest game out there as far as popularity goes.

I don't see the adaptation as fast as you make it out to be.
Mantle was DOA as many said at release. Right now we still only have a hand full of bad DX12 ports with just DX12 wrappers above them. Up to this point we are in need of a real DX12 / Vulcan based title. By the way, DX12 is doomed too because its fate is bound to the questionable Windows 10. I give Vulkan way more credit for its survival. Once Vulkan has more than 20 worthy games, we can speak again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

And I call those people idiots. No, I take that back, I call them willfully ignorant. Sorry, I'm not out to spare anyone's feelings if they feel insulted because they are too dense to do a hair's worth of research before dropping $200. Besides, the 1060 can push the settings with ease., It's faster at 1080p than my 290x by a good deal in most games and I use my 290x at 4k and 1440p without issue. You are telling me these people won't crank the settings up? Why would they bother getting a new card then?

Yes, I am really telling you people don't crank up every setting. Keep in mind not everybody is deep into PCs like we do. In fact a good amount of players will just rely i.e. on Geforce Experience. Sadly you are a bad example of our kind. Speaking ill about other players is one of those behaviors, which give us Gamers a bad name. It's up to people what they do with their money and not your decision.

We can give advice but nothing more. Tell me some novice fool who will crank up everyhing with MSAA & Co. as the stupid game reviewers always do? I have seen more than enough gamers with no AA/AF activated. Lucky for those guys that developers and Nvidia / AMD got better to detect what hardware is available and adjust the base settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

My point is the 780 is a laughing stock now and the 3gb is a real limitation now. Do you really think a 3gb card is going to last 2 years on new titles, let alone in 5 years? I bought my card 3 years ago and it's going to be more useful than a brand new 3gb 1060 for new games. So you may call my 290x ancient all you like, and by gpu performance standards it is, but the fact remains that it's performance is not limited by vram amount. This further proves the idiocy of buying a brand new unreleased card that has such a limitation out of the gate when it has more than enough power to utilize more.

Why cry about the 780? It is a 2013 card and got replaced how many times already?
The mainstream gamer does not need huge amounts of VRAM. These gamers need raw power before anything else. After that comes the own budget and then VRAM. Nobody knows what amount of VRAM future games use. I hear the fearmongering every day and cringe every time. The first jokers come up and preach the mighty 12GB cards would not be enough. Don't such guys come of as utterly fools?

If you need a card now, you get what you either can afford or save and wait forever. At some point you just don't care and need something right now. Nothing wrong with that. I bet alot of those buyer just want something as a placeholder and plan to upgrade whenever Volta or Navi come up in ... let's say 2018.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotagonist View Post

People will recommend the 3GB 1060, but none of them will purchase it if they're in the market for a 1060.

Just as it was with the 960

I doubt the 3GB 1060 will get that many recommendations. Everyone will warn and flame in the threads better to get card XY because of various reasons.

What the recommendatons should be for are:
-60Hz only monitors (Fastsync)
-Indie or non-AAA titles
-1080p only (1440p in rare cases)
-PCs limited to 300-400W power supplies
-Moba games with higher settings and advantages of Fastsync

This is the list i can see for now. By teh way, the 960 was never a bad card. There was just more love for the 380/380X from the AMD crowd. The 960 has always had its fortes here and there. For most mainstream gamers this was more they ever wanted. The 1060 can maybe be similar in certain scenarios. We need reviews to determine what excatly that cards are capable of first. Everything else is just blindly guessing into the blue.
Edited by Hardware Hoshi - 8/20/16 at 6:55pm
post #139 of 332
I still think the 480 is a compelling purchase in this market space against either 1060 to be honest. There's not really a smack down going on here either way (people acting like an ~8% performance advantage is somehow on a different planet or something). As always, the right card for you depends on your usage scenario but the difference between the 480 and 1060 is not so great that one card is simply a slam dunk purchase over the other (well, for the fanboys sure, but not for the average consumer of a $200 video card). I suspect the majority of the intended buyers of either card would be swayed by the 4GB vs 3GB on the box more than any such minor differences in performance between the two. I also agree with others that buying anything with less than 4GB VRAM in this day and age is problematic at best, even given the pricing. Even 1080p can exceed 3GB of memory in some cases and I'd personally take that extra gig of memory on the 480 over this 1060 over any claimed performance advantage it may have (and really, with the cut down chip it might even be a push vs the 480 in that regard anyway)...
post #140 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

I repeat this as often as you wish:
-4Gb was never enough for 1440p is a fact, which is proven today

Where is this proven?
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4790K MSI Z97M Gaming MSI R9 Fury X Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR3 2133 16GB 
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Intel i5 4570s ASUS H97i-PLUS Sapphire R9 380 Compact G.Skill Sniper Low Voltage DDR3 1600 
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WD Green 4tb Windows 7 Ultimate Silverstone SX500-LG Silverstone ML07b 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4790K MSI Z97M Gaming MSI R9 Fury X Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR3 2133 16GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 850 EVO 1TB Corsair H75 Windows 10 Pro Asus VG248QE + VE198TL 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair Gaming K70 RGB Mechanical Gaming Keybo... Corsair AX760 Corsair Carbide Air 240 (black) Corsair Gaming M65 RGB Laser Gaming Mouse 
AudioOther
Soundblaster Z Sennheiser GAME ONE Gaming Headset - White 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 4570s ASUS H97i-PLUS Sapphire R9 380 Compact G.Skill Sniper Low Voltage DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
WD Green 4tb Windows 7 Ultimate Silverstone SX500-LG Silverstone ML07b 
Other
Samsung 850 PRO 128gb 
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