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[Techreport] Nvidia makes its GTX 1060 3GB card official - Page 15

post #141 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMX70 View Post

Where is this proven?
I'm wondering the same thing about what you said earlier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMX70 View Post

Some day people might understand that HBM, at least with AMD, works differently than GDDR5... One does not equal the other in performance or UTILIZATION. .
post #142 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMX70 View Post

Where is this proven?

Agreed. While 4GB may not be ideal for 1440p, cards like the Fury X have proven that it is indeed enough in most circumstances. I still think HBM (and AMD's driver's memory compression magic) are at play here, despite what the "4GB is 4GB" crowd keep saying...
post #143 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogon View Post

I'm wondering the same thing about what you said earlier.

The GPU section where Fury X owners have consistently showed they can get by with 4GB at even 4k resolutions would be a good place for you to look....
post #144 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMX70 View Post

Where is this proven?

Please, we have reviews and discussions about this since the revamped 8GB 390X showed up. Modern titles can use up to 6GB easily. That is why so many gamers want 8GB modells for the enthusiast segment just to be sure. With quality settings cranced up, 4GB can barely be enough for 1080p. We all know that 3 or 4GB both are not futurproof with such high settings. Lowering the bar is another story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Agreed. While 4GB may not be ideal for 1440p, cards like the Fury X have proven that it is indeed enough in most circumstances. I still think HBM (and AMD's driver's memory compression magic) are at play here, despite what the "4GB is 4GB" crowd keep saying...

Oh no, not the Unicorn "HBM is sooo different" story. This myth has been debunked so often, it hurts to even mentioning this. Even HBM can not deny the laws of physic. If the memory is full it's full. The bandwidth can not compensate for the lack of memory capacity. The low ROPS count give this another tombstone. Fiji needs to be revamped.

Your memory compression is normaly a forte for Nvidia. Neither Fiji nor the newer Polaris chips are equal today. Maybe VEGA will change this, but this rare species is missing in action - awaited to arrifve in 2017.
post #145 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

I repeat this as often as you wish:
-4Gb was never enough for 1440p is a fact, which is proven today
-3GB is enough for most 1080p games

So where do you come to this conclusion? How has 4gb never been enough for 1440p but 3gb is enough for 1080p games. Actually you just proved my point against your argument. You said "most" 1080p games. Who wants to buy a brand new card that has the power to run these settings fine at 60fps, but can't because they literally do not have enough vram?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

I am going as far and say some games will even be able to run at 1440p if the graphic settings are moderate. We are in a strange situaton right now. You hear alot about 6GB would not be enough for 1440p. At some point we must shut off the fearmongering about VRAM shortage. There is also no need to discuss new titles with huge amounts of wasted ressources, bad console ports or just garbage tier games using way more ressources they actually need.

So do you not expect to play any new games at all then? You can sit there and call every game a bad console port or having wasted resources but the fact of the matter is that is what is being sold. Do you want to have the capability to properly run it or not? Why spend $200 bucks then?

But wait, now you are saying this 3gb card can do 1440p with the graphics settings at moderate. You just said a Fury X with an extra 1gb of vram doesn't have enough for 1440p. Please just refer to this:

http://www.techspot.com/review/1209-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1060/

1060 can handle 1440p fine w/ 6gb of vram. Ultra textures are not hard to run, but you do need to have enough vram, fact. I'm personally not in the business of having muddy textures myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

I don't see the adaptation as fast as you make it out to be.
Mantle was DOA as many said at release. Right now we still only have a hand full of bad DX12 ports with just DX12 wrappers above them. Up to this point we are in need of a real DX12 / Vulcan based title. By the way, DX12 is doomed too because its fate is bound to the questionable Windows 10. I give Vulkan way more credit for its survival. Once Vulkan has more than 20 worthy games, we can speak again.
Yes, I am really telling you people don't crank up every setting. Keep in mind not everybody is deep into PCs like we do. In fact a good amount of players will just rely i.e. on Geforce Experience. Sadly you are a bad example of our kind. Speaking ill about other players is one of those behaviors, which give us Gamers a bad name. It's up to people what they do with their money and not your decision.

DX12 is doomed now... you are clearly trolling at this point. It is up to people to spend their money how they want, yes, but that doesn't make their decision smart. You can call me a bad example all you want for calling people out about giving bad advice and seeing people make poor decisions. When I give advice it's with the best interest of the end user in mind. I wouldn't want to waste my time nor theirs by sugarcoating anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

Why cry about the 780? It is a 2013 card and got replaced how many times already?
The mainstream gamer does not need huge amounts of VRAM. These gamers need raw power before anything else. After that comes the own budget and then VRAM. Nobody knows what amount of VRAM future games use. I hear the fearmongering every day and cringe every time. The first jokers come up and preach the mighty 12GB cards would not be enough. Don't such guys come of as utterly fools?

I still have yet to see you give me evidence on who is preaching about 12gb not being enough. Also if I dropped $600 on a 780 let alone $700 on a 780ti less than 3 years ago I'd be pretty concerned about it's performance myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

If you need a card now, you get what you either can afford or save and wait forever. At some point you just don't care and need something right now. Nothing wrong with that. I bet alot of those buyer just want something as a placeholder and plan to upgrade whenever Volta or Navi come up in ... let's say 2018.

If you need a card NOW, and saving up an extra $40-$50 is going to take you forever (well first off, best to get your life in order first at that point before thinking about video games) then you may as well just grab a 480 4gb and be set. Especially if like you said, they plan to use to 2018. Hrmm, should I go with the card with less vram and lesser DX12 performance or should I spend the money on a card with better support DX12 and an extra gb of vram?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

This is the list i can see for now. By teh way, the 960 was never a bad card. There was just more love for the 380/380X from the AMD crowd. The 960 has always had its fortes here and there. For most mainstream gamers this was more they ever wanted. The 1060 can maybe be similar in certain scenarios. We need reviews to determine what excatly that cards are capable of first. Everything else is just blindly guessing into the blue.

960 vs 380: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1744?vs=1750

960 vs 380X: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1744?vs=1752

Yup, more love from the AMD crowd that's all. I believe you meant to say recommended by people who actually know anything about video card performance.
_____

On a side note, your arguments continue to contradict themselves.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

Please, we have reviews and discussions about this since the revamped 8GB 390X showed up. Modern titles can use up to 6GB easily. That is why so many gamers want 8GB modells for the enthusiast segment just to be sure. With quality settings cranced up, 4GB can barely be enough for 1080p. We all know that 3 or 4GB both are not futurproof with such high settings. Lowering the bar is another story.

I'm dying from the irony. You've got to be trolling at this point.

I mean you'd think I'd learn by now... I've been having these same discussions since I was told my spending a hair more for a 128mb geforce4 ti4200 was a waste. Yup, such a waste to have the card last longer and play newer titles than all of the people on the 64mb versions.

One thing that is often over looked about having more vram is caching. Typically the card with more vram will allow for a smoother experience as well but that is just opening up another can of worms at this point because some people refuse to research.
Edited by SoloCamo - 8/20/16 at 7:45pm
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post #146 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

Please, we have reviews and discussions about this since the revamped 8GB 390X showed up. Modern titles can use up to 6GB easily. That is why so many gamers want 8GB modells for the enthusiast segment just to be sure. With quality settings cranced up, 4GB can barely be enough for 1080p. We all know that 3 or 4GB both are not futurproof with such high settings. Lowering the bar is another story.


Oh no, not the Unicorn "HBM is sooo different" story. This myth has been debunked so often, it hurts to even mentioning this. Even HBM can not deny the laws of physic. If the memory is full it's full. The bandwidth can not compensate for the lack of memory capacity. The low ROPS count give this another tombstone. Fiji needs to be revamped.

Your memory compression is normaly a forte for Nvidia. Neither Fiji nor the newer Polaris chips are equal today. Maybe VEGA will change this, but this rare species is missing in action - awaited to arrifve in 2017.

You obviously haven't seen anything about how the drivers are tweaked differently for Fiji chips in regards to dynamic vram. You'd be hard pressed to find a single game out there that hits a hard VRAM limit and cripples Fiji at 1440p.

4GB barely enough for 1080p? That is just absolute rubbish.
     
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post #147 of 332
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Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

The GPU section where Fury X owners have consistently showed they can get by with 4GB at even 4k resolutions would be a good place for you to look....

Oh? There are examples out there that show Fji cards running out of memory while the GTX 980 Ti was still fine with its 6GB. Most of them both cards did not have enough raw power to be playable at 4k resolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

So where do you come to this conclusion? How has 4gb never been enough for 1440p but 3gb is enough for 1080p games. Actually you just proved my point against your argument. You said "most" 1080p games. Who wants to buy a brand new card that has the power to run these settings fine at 60fps, but can't because they literally do not have enough vram?

You should read what I acutally write. I said it depends on the settings. With moderate settings even 3GB is enough for 1080p gaming. Potentially even at 1440p. Once you up the settings it becomes the complete opposite. Then 4Gb can get the limiter very fast or just barely be enough. At 1440p even 6Gb can get at its capacity, depending on the game. Saying 4Gb would please the 1440p crowd is not what they expect at their usual settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

So do you not expect to play any new games at all then? You can sit there and call every game a bad console port or having wasted resources but the fact of the matter is that is what is being sold. Do you want to have the capability to properly run it or not? Why spend $200 bucks then?

New games are beta-software at best. Until the run usually lots and lots of patches are needed. For the mainstream $200 are OK. Not a single soul expects 980 Ti / 1070 performance in that region (wishful maybe?!'). Having a 970/980 class card for that price is not bad at all. Don't be a baby.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

But wait, now you are saying this 3gb card can do 1440p with the graphics settings at moderate. You just said a Fury X with an extra 1gb of vram doesn't have enough for 1440p. Please just refer to this:

http://www.techspot.com/review/1209-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1060/

1060 can handle 1440p fine w/ 6gb of vram. Ultra textures are not hard to run, but you do need to have enough vram, fact. I'm personally not in the business of having muddy textures myself.

Who in this crazy world pays $500+ to lower the settings?
The 6GB 1060 can handle 1440p fine because its made for this. With the 6GB frame buffer and enough horse power its ok. The 3Gb version has close this performance but lacks the VRAM, therefor its an 1080p card with potential ot run some games at 1440p in some cases.

What is so hard to understand here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

If you need a card NOW, and saving up an extra $40-$50 is going to take you forever (well first off, best to get your life in order first at that point before thinking about video games) then you may as well just grab a 480 4gb and be set. Especially if like you said, they plan to use to 2018. Hrmm, should I go with the card with less vram and lesser DX12 performance or should I spend the money on a card with better support DX12 and an extra gb of vram?

DX12 only matters if you have Windows 10. Every with older MS operating systems like Windows 7 and 8.1 will not benefit from this. With the humongous crowd of people not going with the garbage Microsoft is presenting them (especially UWP games! mad.gif), the chance for DX12 to fall with this OS are quite high.

You are so fast to judge but never see the whole picture. Some gamers out there get their money for graphics cards by special events. A kid waiting for i.e. its birthday or christmas presetnt can hardly haggle for another 50-80 bucks for the next better model. If the limit is 200 bucks it is 200 bucks. In Europe the Rx-series is as good as not available or the prices are just sky-high. Having as good as no choise those buyers will take the 1060 (3GB) and be happy with it.

I don't know what will happen in a few months when all this will settle down, but this is the wqay it is. As of now DX12 is a red hering nobody cares until the market drastically changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

On a side note, your arguments continue to contradict themselves.

Not really! It is just your inability to understand and accept what I tell you over and over. I must say, your ignorance is almost admirable.wink.gif
post #148 of 332
I'd say price gouging on the AMD side is the only thing helping Nvid claw some of the low end back...

DX12 is not dead. Otherwise Microsoft will stand to lose a lot of money. They have never abandoned a DirectX unless its out of date. >_>'
post #149 of 332
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Originally Posted by GreatChicken View Post

I'd say price gouging on the AMD side is the only thing helping Nvid claw some of the low end back...

It's not AMD alone that does the price gauging. Nvidia is hit too. Every new FinFET card is easily 20-30% more expensive than it should be. For AMD I blame the average general capabilities of Polaris. For what the architecture was hyped for, it is ... well, disappointing? Yeah, better than the old heaters 290X and successors, but still not that good as proclaimed. Except for the price nothing speaks for this cards.

Nvidia uses this ice-cold to hold or even regain some percentages of the market share. Must be the reason some guys are so aggressive in every discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatChicken View Post

DX12 is not dead. Otherwise Microsoft will stand to lose a lot of money. They have never abandoned a DirectX unless its out of date. >_>'

Microsoft is like a flag in the wind. Today they say / attempt this and tomorrow they make the exact opposite. Unless Windows 10 turns out to be a huge success, I don't see DX12 win in the long run. Vulkan is too open for otehr plattforms to lose this. Microsoft will lose money for sure as the did in the recent history. Their company strategy is too much anti-consumer to be successful.

DirectX was only used that much because of the monopoly of Windows situation. If Windows struggles, DX will too. Let's not forget what future the XBOX division will face. It is uncertain at best.
post #150 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

You should read what I acutally write. I said it depends on the settings. With moderate settings even 3GB is enough for 1080p gaming. Potentially even at 1440p. Once you up the settings it becomes the complete opposite. Then 4Gb can get the limiter very fast or just barely be enough. At 1440p even 6Gb can get at its capacity, depending on the game. Saying 4Gb would please the 1440p crowd is not what they expect at their usual settings.

So your entire argument boils down to the fact that because most users in that segment (according to you) are ignorant of settings so the 3gb model card is ok. Because at the end of the day that's the only way to justify what you are stressing. The 1060 has been shown to handle 1440p with max settings at great framerates for many games, even new games. What do you not understand about this in relation to the same card having the vram cut in half?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

New games are beta-software at best. Until the run usually lots and lots of patches are needed. For the mainstream $200 are OK. Not a single soul expects 980 Ti / 1070 performance in that region (wishful maybe?!'). Having a 970/980 class card for that price is not bad at all. Don't be a baby.

How am I being a baby about stressing how 3gb of vram on a card as fast as a 980 and sometimes faster at 1080p is ridiculous? You can either run the game or not. Being a baby and crying "bad port", "console garbage", "wasted resources" for pretty much every title is acting childish. Game requirements do get higher as time goes you know. How old is the 7970 these days, almost 6 years? Still plenty capable of using it's 3gb's of vram.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

Who in this crazy world pays $500+ to lower the settings?
The 6GB 1060 can handle 1440p fine because its made for this. With the 6GB frame buffer and enough horse power its ok. The 3Gb version has close this performance but lacks the VRAM, therefor its an 1080p card with potential ot run some games at 1440p in some cases.

What is so hard to understand here?

So again, why would you knowingly by a card capable of 1440p horsepower wise often w/ max settings but one that can't due to vram limitations? Why not just get a 4gb 480 or save some cash and get a 4gb 470? The games the buyers of a 1060 3gb as you described would play are more than easily maxed out on a rx 470 for that matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

DX12 only matters if you have Windows 10. Every with older MS operating systems like Windows 7 and 8.1 will not benefit from this. With the humongous crowd of people not going with the garbage Microsoft is presenting them (especially UWP games! mad.gif), the chance for DX12 to fall with this OS are quite high.

You are so fast to judge but never see the whole picture. Some gamers out there get their money for graphics cards by special events. A kid waiting for i.e. its birthday or christmas presetnt can hardly haggle for another 50-80 bucks for the next better model. If the limit is 200 bucks it is 200 bucks. In Europe the Rx-series is as good as not available or the prices are just sky-high. Having as good as no choise those buyers will take the 1060 (3GB) and be happy with it.

I don't know what will happen in a few months when all this will settle down, but this is the wqay it is. As of now DX12 is a red hering nobody cares until the market drastically changes.
Not really! It is just your inability to understand and accept what I tell you over and over. I must say, your ignorance is almost admirable.wink.gif

The fact that you think Win 10 failed is the real issue here. DX12 is gaining traction faster than DX10 and DX11 by far. I'm glad kids get birthday money, that's cool and all, but has nothing to do with making a smart purchase or not.

A video card isn't a car, it's not going to take you back and forth to work and you certainly don't NEED one.
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