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[Techreport] Nvidia makes its GTX 1060 3GB card official - Page 25

post #241 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post

Read the quote from the Anandtech review under the Furmark numbers he provided for the explanation.
Then look at the Crysis 3 numbers like the author of the review recommends to see the truth.

Well, I just showed to person accusing me as a liar a bit of the truth. Without heavy OC to STOCK cherry picked scenarios, a GTX 1060 6GB does not consume nearly as much power as any RX400-series. Since the cut-down 3GB 1060 has 1 SM-cluster disabled and half the VRAM, the power consumption should be even smaller than the big brother.

I mentioned this because of the fact some power limited systems can really profit from this. We in Europe are crazy for power savings and therefore the 1060 is often in favor here.
post #242 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

In the extreme budget gamers mentality, every penny counts.
--Here in Europe / Germany we have a strange situation. The difference between the same EVGA 10603 GB and 6Gb are roughly 60€ (-> 219€ vs 279€ or 289€). Now think about what those 60€ difference would bring in a budget build. Maybe a few percent more performance in some games, but not overal better FPS becaus both cards are not that far between each other.

In a budgte build those 60€ can be the deciding factor. You could get:
-an i7 instead of an i5
-a 16GB of i.e. DDR3 1600+
-a 256GB SSD

With those options in mind, do you still think the more expensive upgrade would be worth it?

Oh, and here the RX-series is hell of a strange product here. Some 470-s and 480's are first of all not available and in addition expensive as hell if they are. I don't know if you can say they are not a real alternative. Problems with power consumption, heat and noise add fuel to the fire too.


As I already said, Germany isn't the only country in Europe or in the Eurozone. In my country the difference between the 3GB and 6 GB 1060 you are pointing out is half of that, 31 Eur, not 60.

Also, for a 60 Eur difference, would an extreme budget gamer go for a locked i7 6700 versus an unlocked i5 6600K? That's the only price difference I can find that matches your criteria.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

In your case, would you prefer a 780 Ti 3GB or a 770 with 4GB?
All benchmarks indicate that the 780 Ti is the better card all around and the 770 model weaker. Now what you guys do is the same with the 1060/3GB vs the i.e. RX-4*0/4GB but you suggest the weaker card because it has 1GB more VRAM.

GPU raw power is the principle on how fast a card can go. The VRAM only limits the maximum smoothness to a certain extend. If your GPU is not fast enough, you can have all the VRAM in the world. It will just be wasted. The only exception is if you forcefully let the card with less VRAM run into the VRAM-limit without adjusting the settings or choose the wrong ones from the very beginning.

A fast card may not get to its full potential with an insufficient amount of VRAM, yet its still capable of outperforming the vice versa case. That is why I called you a fanboy because claiming the opposite is unlogic and therefore tends to be more on the fansite. Sorry if its not the truth then!

Between a 780 Ti 3GB or a 770 with 4GB? How about neither? The 780 Ti was poor value in terms of future with only 3 GB of VRAM, a business decision by Nvidia to not hurt Titan and Titan Black sales and the GTX 770 was a rebranded GPU that threw efficiency out the window to catch the HD 7970 Ghz Edition, while still being more compute limited.

How about an R9 290X?
Edited by tpi2007 - 8/22/16 at 12:47pm
 
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post #243 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post


How about an R9 290X?
He only speaks nVidia.
post #244 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

As I already said, Germany isn't the only country in Europe or in the Eurozone. In my country the difference between the 3GB and 6 GB 1060 you are pointing out is half of that, 31 Eur, not 60.

Germany may not be the only country in Europe or the Eurozone, yet it is one of the biggest markets there. Expect France, Spain and of course th UK we got lots of gamers who are ehnthusiastic and ready enough to pay for our hobby. Be it ingame transactions or upgrading the hardware itelf regularly.

In my older posts I wrote that the prices are all over the place right now. When the actual situation with the availability and price gauging settles, we will see a better picture of what card is where to find. The AMD cards are as good as not available and expensive. Nvidia is just flooding the market with all kinds of 1060's while 1070's and 1080's are well in stock.

After the price fights have occured, the costs for a graphics card hopefully are down enough. Too bad there are way to many gamers who need a new card now. Be it because of a defect or just terrible outdated hardware in the PCs.

Then there is another faction:
-Those who just want a stepping stone for 1 or 2 years. Maybe they want to have somthing until either Vega/ Navi or Volta arrive. You can bet those guys will get the cheapest card available. In this segment, 30-50€ is too much for them because they know of their future upgrade already and save the money for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Between a 780 Ti 3GB or a 770 with 4GB? How about neither? The 780 Ti was poor value in terms of future with only 3 GB of VRAM, a business decision by Nvidia to not hurt Titan and Titan Black sales and the GTX 770 was a rebranded GPU that threw efficiency out the window to catch the HD 7970 Ghz Edition, while still being more compute limited.

How about an R9 290X?

The example was not good from the beginning because of the history of all those cards. I made it because someone brought the 780 Ti into this. My attempt was to show how nonsensical the VRAM hype was if the performance is not there. Since the 780 Ti was once the flagship high-end model, there is no way to compare this to a budget mainstream offer.

The goal focused on the similar performanc delta a 780 Ti (3GB) vs 770 (4GB) would have. I saw a similar situation as with the 1060 and RX400 series, although reviews are still missing to proof anything. This was by no means a buy suggestion. God no, don't ever buy a well outdated 28nm card unless you get the deal of your life in the used market.

To add the older AMD cards in the example would have brought nothing into the discussion. As we all know, many AMD cards need several revisions and redesigns untill the AIBs have found the right balance for an outstanding product. Not to mention a ton of driver updates until AMD can finally pull the raw performance on the street. Sadly we can not know which model is to buy when. This will reveal in the future where it is then pure luck if you picked the right card to the correct point in time.

I guess the best time to upgrade will be somewhen 2017 or 2018. At those times the FinFET nodes will be matured and all the child diseases solved. No matter what you buy now, the card will be outdated within 1-2 years anyways and replaced fast.
post #245 of 332
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_gtx_1060_gaming_x_3gb_review,1.html

I have to admit the performance is good even though the new generation of cards either the gtx 1000 series or rx 400 overclock like schiit(audio).If you are extremely bughet limited and don't mind turning settings that consume vram like very high textures or crazy AA like 8x and the price stays at $220 then a case can be made for it.I still wouldn't buy it at 2016 knowing what i know now and having the bad surprise with rise of tomb raider i would save by not going out a couple of times for beer and get the 6gb version.
post #246 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

Within that 5-10°C degree it highly depends if this hot air is going into the case or out of the PC. Many people just hate it when their GPU heats up their room.
I didn't want to say the RX-series is a hopeless spaceheater as the reference 290X was, but it surely needs alot of cooling for being mainstream class cards. At least the cooling is more needed than a smaller dimensioned GTX 1060.
.
How hot the chip gets is irrelevant. Only how many Watts of heat get dissipated into the room has any importance in regards to warming up a room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

Buyers may have their preferences here, yet I believe a GTX 1060 is better fit for smaller case than a RX470 / 480.
Quiet has many levels of tolerance. I feel like we in Europe only get the B-grade hardware to hellish prices. The few reviews about the RX470 incoming here were not so positive. Loud fans and even coil whine have been reported in more than a few cases. No clue if this is a first batch problem, but I would never engage a game of russian roulette with my new hardware again.
There is always a chance you'll get a dud with any HW really. In particular when talking about coil whine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

If there are problems, I hope AMD will fix them more sooner than later.
Only where the power is surged from has been fixed. Polaris still draws way to much power for what its class should need.
As I already said, a RX480 draws at least 50W more than a full GTX 1060. The smaller RX470 needs 10W less, although this can still be too much for a weak power supply you find in the usual complete PC offers.

If a buyer just changes the graphics card, those numbers might lead to upgrading the PSU too. Not really preferable for the budget area these cards fight in.
In the HTPC segment this can be crucial too, because you normally have your system run for very long periods.
Any decent PSU should be able to handle either card really. If a PSU can't handle a 300W load it should not be in a modern PC/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

I am not up to date with the DPC story. A few weeks ago this was reported by the IT sites and Nvidia promised to be fixed by driver.
Just yesterday I noticed the new article of techreport about issues with the 470. The whole story was here.
http://techreport.com/blog/30506/re-examining-the-unusual-frame-time-results-in-our-radeon-rx-470-review

For me this just means all the new FinFet cards have child diseases and must mature first. We have to see in a long run how this develops further.
First of all we should all be happy to have options in the budget mainstream. This will lead to AMD and Nvidia fight for the best off, which we as buyers profit from in general.
So, you didn't even read the article you quoted. The issue was with the motherboard BIOS and not with the card . The 480 has no DPC issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

In my opinion all mid-range to lower high-end are compromises at best. As a buyer you have to choose your lesser evil somewhere. The vendors want some margins for themselves too, so there has to be a cut at some places to make the cheap product viable. Everyone has different needs. If you don't want to invest money, don't expect to get the best of the best.

I see all the new GTX 1060's just as a cheap replacement for those guys who always wanted a GTX 980, but could never afford them. Now they get what they want and maybe they will never need that much VRAM. Personally I noticed how spoiled we got over the last years with our demand for performance. If we get aways from the perfectionism and be happy with what we got, alot of hardware will hold out way longer than we may have anticipated.
Both cards have their issues, but at the moment i think the high DPC latency is the bigger issue. Nvidia really need to get a proper fix out
post #247 of 332
Guru3d just did a review of the MSI 1060 3gb card and it looks to be on par with the 970 with just ~1/2 gig less vram, for this reason it will sell tons regardless if its an absolute turd in comparison to the rest of the pascal lineup.

Source
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/msi-geforce-gtx-1060-gaming-x-3gb-review,1.html
    
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post #248 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disharmonic View Post

How hot the chip gets is irrelevant. Only how many Watts of heat get dissipated into the room has any importance in regards to warming up a room.

It' not really irrelevant how hot a chip gets. The hotter its surface, the bigger the cooler on top is needed to get the beast in check. Adding a too small model is equally as nonsensical as clapping a GTX 1080 cooler with 3 big-ass fans onto the problem. Both solutions are terrible inefficient

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disharmonic View Post

There is always a chance you'll get a dud with any HW really. In particular when talking about coil whine.

A did would not be a problem if it were alone. Once a GPU series, a certain modell or vendor is having issues in masses, it can get ugly. We just hear the first complain coming in. Nobody knows if this are single cases or another problematic hardware chapter. Playing hardware lottery is not what we as customers seriously want. There has to be better quality assurence for IT hardware for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disharmonic View Post

Any decent PSU should be able to handle either card really. If a PSU can't handle a 300W load it should not be in a modern PC/

Define "decent", please!
There are so many PC out there with subclass hardware in it. Any Office model can be equipped with a halfway good GPU and suddenly play a huge amount of games.

I can not tell you now many questionable PSUs and hardware compositions I have seen in my life. The bigger part of all PC owners buy a Standard-PC. The kids and family then add a few new parts (i.e. CPU, RAM, GPU or SSD) and the device has to suffice for all the needs. Not everyone is building their own PCs like we do. Years ago i was surprised about that fact too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disharmonic View Post

So, you didn't even read the article you quoted. The issue was with the motherboard BIOS and not with the card . The 480 has no DPC issues.
Both cards have their issues, but at the moment i think the high DPC latency is the bigger issue. Nvidia really need to get a proper fix out

The article was just an example how any hardware can be affected by other components. The amount of parts on the market makes the whole situation very tricky and complex.

Nvidia said the could find the issue and will fix it in a driver. The reviewers will test this sooner or later, but I doubt it is that much of an issue. What it hundret percent will be is another point for the fanboy-discussions in the forums. PCPer wrote there is an optional hotfix for now available to half-fix it. I have to test that myself as soon as my own 6GB 1060 arrives.
post #249 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12Cores View Post

Guru3d just did a review of the MSI 1060 3gb card and it looks to be on par with the 970 with just ~1/2 gig less vram, for this reason it will sell tons regardless if its an absolute turd in comparison to the rest of the pascal lineup.

Source
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/msi-geforce-gtx-1060-gaming-x-3gb-review,1.html
Anyone who buys that card is an enemy of the gaming industry.

Gaming is an experience Neo, that experience is our future. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? nVidia fanboys, double standards, bias, liars. The very minds of the gamers we are trying to save. But until we do, these nVidia supporters are still part of supporting gamer deception, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand most of these people are not ready to be unplugged, and many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the brand name, that they will fight to protect it.
post #250 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightAntilli View Post

Anyone who buys that card is an enemy of the gaming industry.
We got there in the end.
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