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[AMD] Breakthrough Performance of “Zen” (Head to Head with Broadwell-E!) - Page 28

post #271 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post


No, it's most certainly a bug. This particular one was introduced last year in patch 6.1 when they reworked the engine. I'l get into more details with numbers in a sec

I'm telling you, I've played on WOTLK private servers for so long. I always used shadows one notch before disabled even with my extremely powerful RIG for gaming.

Even on this private server Warmane I noticed how much shadows crippled performance ONLY when a lot of assets were on screen, things like Raids, WPvP ETC... The same still persist in Warlords of Draenor today, the issue is exacerbated because graphics are now more complex, maps in the new zones have WAY more Polygons compared to WOTLK, the new character models and overall engine is revamped requiring even more draw calls per scene.

Now you get into Ashran with hundred of Alliances and hundred of hordes fighting each other with 50 Death Knights using undead Army like animals and you will have such Draw Call bottleneck, no matter the CPU, and it will get worse the more shadows you have as this will have to be writting on each freaking ghoul, character, Pyroblast and tree on screen. Considering WoW is a very single threaded game with an ancient graphics engine I'm actually impressed it is actually playable at these circumstances even with skylake CPUs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

The issue that i'm describing and screenshotted for you appeared overnight with patch 6.1

Hard to believe, excuse my skepticism but I'm willing to listen to any evidence if presented. Although I don't see how that wouldn't change what I said above.
Edited by Dargonplay - 8/19/16 at 9:53pm
post #272 of 580
I posted screenshots

The performance gap between min & max shadows was not anywhere near this big for me before 6.1, meanwhile i show a 228% FPS gain (3.28x of baseline) setting from minimum+1 to minimum setting. It's insane.

Max shadows have always been fairly heavy but since 6.1 if you have certain stuff set with certain hardware then anything aside from the minimum shadow setting will lower your FPS by 50-80%. Setting shadows to level 2 or to level 6 will run practically the same, but level 1 will triple your FPS.

It's not cherry picked - i just logged in, stared at a wall and took 2 pictures. They cripple performance like this 100% of the time when certain settings and hardware is used.
Quote:
you will have such Draw Call bottleneck, no matter the CPU

Sure you will but a CPU twice as fast still gives twice the FPS. Combinations of way better CPU's, better GPU drivers, overclocks and such can create huge performance differences
Edited by Cyro999 - 8/19/16 at 9:58pm
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post #273 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post


No, that's completely wrong. GPU's in these types of tests will easily drop below 50% (even below 20%) load and you can see the same FPS with one system using a gtx960 and another using a 980ti. I get the feeling that you're just wildly speculating here without ever having tested the game

 

Yeah, certain game engines limit output, or have weird timestamps.

 

WoW's problem is 32bit related, that's why certain CPU's scale better.

post #274 of 580
WoW is 64 bit now. Different CPU's are better or worse at different things, i don't think that there's any unexplained scaling


@Above - for additional context, setting shadows from level 1 to level 2 does triple the GPU load. It's not a CPU draw call bottleneck
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post #275 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

WoW is 64 bit now. Different CPU's are better or worse at different things, i don't think that there's any unexplained scaling


@Above - for additional context, setting shadows from level 1 to level 2 does triple the GPU load. It's not a CPU draw call bottleneck

Shadows can double or triple the draw calls required in a scene as every single asset casting a shadow calls for draws on the CPU and thus no doubt, it is a draw call bottleneck.
post #276 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

There is absolutely no reason for GPU load to increase by 3.28x when changing the setting shown in these two pictures. CPU load also changes.

Going from no shadows and no AO to shadows and AO will hit quite a few games similarly hard, especially ones that are otherwise graphically unintensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

Shadows can double or triple the draw calls required in a scene as every single asset casting a shadow calls for draws on the CPU and thus no doubt, it is a draw call bottleneck.

Shadows do tend to be very CPU intensive.
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post #277 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Shadows do tend to be very CPU intensive.

They do however require polygons, which are synonyms for Drawcalls.
post #278 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

Shadows can double or triple the draw calls required in a scene as every single asset casting a shadow calls for draws on the CPU and thus no doubt, it is a draw call bottleneck.

GPU load triples - my CPU is not limiting performance in this test.

It's quite clear what's going on - if i lower the resolution scale then GPU load increases from 27% to 80% when i raise shadows from level 1 to 2 but the CPU-limited FPS barely changes, implying that the CPU load has not dramatically changed.

If i keep res scale up so that GPU becomes performance limiter, performance drops by over 3x.

If you roll back to pre-6.1 this doesn't happen any more so it's an issue with the game engine. They changed a lot of rendering related stuff in 6.1, that's the patch where they re-implemented MSAA and supersampling as well.
Edited by Cyro999 - 8/19/16 at 10:21pm
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post #279 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

GPU load triples. My CPU is not limiting performance in this test. When i set other settings down, this single setting makes GPU load go from 27% to 80%. When i leave them up, performance reduces by more than 3x.

God. That's what I'm saying and that's why it supports what I've been saying. World of Warcraft is a very drawcall intensive game. World of Warcraft have a lot of assets on screen, even more than your average RTS game, World of Warcraft is huge with tons of players around, each individual player with so many animations filled with draw calls for each and every polygon on these animations, to the grass and trees to the Pyroblast coming at you.

The thing with shadow is that even though all of these Polygons and drawcalls are high in numbers it might still be manageable by certain CPUs like Skylake 6700K, but then you come in and enable shadows and now every single asset combined that was already nearing bottleneck is now casting a shadow that requires near if not the same amount of Polygons as the original asset.

Enabling shadows in a game like World of Warcraft is literally DOUBLING the draw calls, or TRIPLING IT if there are several light sources as they now implemented more complex dynamic multi lightning in late WoD patches, which is why performance tanks when enabling shadows.
post #280 of 580
If AMD Zen really matches BW-E IPC and still priced at $499 for their 8C/16T offering...

We will finally see a long awaited price cut from Intel X99 CPUs


6950X -> $999
6900K -> $599
6850K -> $399
6800K -> EOL


Damn its about time. smile.gif



But we all know what is hype when it comes to AMD.
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