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[AMD] Breakthrough Performance of “Zen” (Head to Head with Broadwell-E!) - Page 4

post #31 of 580
Every time i hear news of zen, i feel bad for my sweet ol' phenom 960t. Its turning archaic real fast with 7 years and counting on him. There is just something about the Phenom IIs that feels magical and legendary. I would sell my 5820k any time, but would never sell my Phenom 960t. I dont know what it is.
    
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post #32 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

Clock speeds are going to make or break this. It's going to need to reach 4ghz to be competitive for gaming. AMD's multithreaded performance was good even in 2011 with BD.. it's always been a matter of per core performance hurting them. Nice to see the gap closed a bit but there are still too many variables to confirm where it will actually sit overall as far as performance goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Clock for clock, Zen is a match for Broadwell...in Blender. Very few games, even the best threaded games, behave like Blender.

I'm optimistic about Zen, but one must be careful about what one extrapolates from a narrow selection of cherry picked benchmarks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucdan View Post

I disagree, I'm not sure why everyone is so caught up with clock speeds. IF Zen can match a 4.0Ghz Intel while operating at 3.4Ghz, then it's just as good, if not better.

Everyone is so caught up in clock speeds because we can see that Zen's likely best case scenario IPC is tied with Broadwell.

Clock speed potential is the greater unknown, and is just as relevant to performance.


Exactly. I'm with the 'proceed with caution' guys.

The question is what scenario are we being presented with? Is this an "under promise, over deliver" scenario - where AMD shows one reasonable, if nothing extraordinary result in the absence of more information, but is withholding even better ones from other benchmarks; the opposite and this is a cherry picked scenario and the focus on production clockspeeds at a given TDP will be even greater to compensate, or an average scenario where this is what we are essentially getting?

We still need to know how these are going to clock. We now officially know that they can do 3.0 Ghz, but Broadwell-E is clocked faster than that out of the box, so what speed can Zen do and at what TDP and what are the performance metrics in other benchmarks and games and productivity software?
 
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post #33 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post



Exactly. I'm with the 'proceed with caution' guys.

The question is what scenario are we being presented with? Is this an "under promise, over deliver scenario" - where AMD shows one reasonable, if nothing extraordinary result in the absence of more information, but is withholding even better ones from other benchmarks; the opposite and this is a cherry picked scenario and the focus on production clockspeeds at a given TDP will be even greater to compensate, or an average scenario where this is what we are essentially getting?

We still need to know how these are going to clock. We now officially know that they can do 3.0 Ghz, but Broadwell-E is clocked faster than that out of the box, so what speed can Zen do and at what TDP and what are the performance metrics in other benchmarks and games and productivity software?

I'm all about the 32 core.
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post #34 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuy409 View Post

Every time i hear news of zen, i feel bad for my sweet ol' phenom 960t. Its turning archaic real fast with 7 years and counting on him. There is just something about the Phenom IIs that feels magical and legendary. I would sell my 5820k any time, but would never sell my Phenom 960t. I dont know what it is.

The 960T was the best cpu i ever owned, managed to unlock mine to an X6 clocked @ 4.0ghz. Will there be a 4c/8t variant of zen?
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post #35 of 580
I have never been a fan of AMD Chipsets. I used to LOVE their CPUs but hated using VIA or AMD based chipset motherboards. I have to admit that the 990FX changed my view a tad but it is still delivering subpar USB/PCIe and I/O performance when compared to an Intel equivalent chipset.

Another thing which irks me is the lack of a decent Gigabit (or higher) NIC being integrated onto AMD platforms. I despise and loathe Realtek based chips as I find them to produce rather bad results. Under intense stress... I have had quite a few Realtek Integrated NICs simply fail (particularly on Gigabyte motherboards).

The Realtek audio is another point of contention. I think that if AMD is to release a full platform... they need to work on the platform itself, not just the CPU. It would be nice if TrueAudio was integrated onto the motherboard but not by using anything Realtek related. Maybe a C-Media Oxygen HD chip instead. Something which screams "High quality gaming platform".

For the NIC... if I were AMD... I would focus on convincing my motherboard partners into using Intel chips for the task (unless AMD opts to develop their own killer NIC chip). Realtek is really "THAT BAD".

I am pretty sure I am not the only one who has had to suffer the cheapness of Realtek based products. Anytime I see a nice and shiny Asus Rampage X Extreme motherboard with realtek components... I die a little inside.

The first thing I did once I bought my Asus Rampage IV Extreme motherboard was to disable the Realtek audio and use this instead...


On my AMD boxes, I have used Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 7.1 and Forte sound cards (varying on if there was a PCIe or PCI slot available). Realtek just really sucks and sounds like you're listening to music/movies/video games from within a tin can the moment you buy a pair of high-grade headphones (like Sennheiser etc).
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post #36 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post

I have never been a fan of AMD Chipsets. I used to LOVE their CPUs but hated using VIA or AMD based chipset motherboards. I have to admit that the 990FX changed my view a tad but it is still delivering subpar USB/PCIe and I/O performance when compared to an Intel equivalent chipset.

Another thing which irks me is the lack of a decent Gigabit (or higher) NIC being integrated onto AMD platforms. I despise and loathe Realtek based chips as I find them to produce rather bad results. Under intense stress... I have had quite a few Realtek Integrated NICs simply fail (particularly on Gigabyte motherboards).

The Realtek audio is another point of contention. I think that if AMD is to release a full platform... they need to work on the platform itself, not just the CPU. It would be nice if TrueAudio was integrated onto the motherboard but not by using anything Realtek related. Maybe a C-Media Oxygen HD chip instead. Something which screams "High quality gaming platform".

For the NIC... if I were AMD... I would focus on convincing my motherboard partners into using Intel chips for the task (unless AMD opts to develop their own killer NIC chip). Realtek is really "THAT BAD".

I am pretty sure I am not the only one who has had to suffer the cheapness of Realtek based products. Anytime I see a nice and shiny Asus Rampage X Extreme motherboard with realtek components... I die a little inside.

If Zen performs well enough to get at least $400-$500 tier SKUs, then we would get plenty of high-end options for AM4 motherboard and we wouldn't worry about most of the issues above.
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post #37 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpjoslee View Post

If Zen performs well enough to get at least $400-$500 tier SKUs, then we would get plenty of high-end options for AM4 motherboard and we wouldn't worry about most of the issues above.

I hope so... because even current and past high-end AMD motherboards have simply never been on the same level as high end Intel based motherboards. I really hope AMD changes things around this time. They really need to get away from the cheap brand moniker and start to Apple their stuff.
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post #38 of 580
I really hope AMD doesn't play the PCI-E lane game that Intel does. All CPUs unlocked, and 40PCI-E lanes available for all CPUs, they will entice many.
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post #39 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Everyone is so caught up in clock speeds because we can see that Zen's likely best case scenario IPC is tied with Broadwell.

Clock speed potential is the greater unknown, and is just as relevant to performance.

Not Broadwell, Broadwell-E which is not that great an OC'er with 6+ cores. My earlier prediction was Zen matching stock 5930k IPC, looks inline with these results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuclearPeace View Post

There is really two ways of me seeing Zen playing out to beat Intel:

The first way is that Zen matches or beats Broadwell outright with IPC. With how little AMD can spend with R&D I just find this really difficult to see happening, unless AMD has been working on Zen ever since Bulldozer was finished. Also, since Intel has been struggling to really improve their architecture ever since Sandy Bridge, its even harder for me to believe that AMD, who messed up with K8 and Bulldozer, to make far more progress in a shorter amount of time.

The second way is that Zen is slightly slower on IPC (no more than a 20% lead by Skylake) but makes up for it with core count. Also, Zen must be cheap enough to manufacture for this to work out well. Once Zen reaches that "good enough" level of single threaded performance people are going to forgive it being slightly slower per core since it will be a much faster overall CPU than a 4 core i7 or i5.

Both are correct in that AMD has been working on Zen for 4+ years and Broadwell-E like IPC will be slower than Skylake.
Edited by Redwoodz - 8/18/16 at 3:08pm
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post #40 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post

I hope so... because even current and past high-end AMD motherboards have simply never been on the same level as high end Intel based motherboards. I really hope AMD changes things around this time. They really need to get away from the cheap brand moniker and start to Apple their stuff.

Same. I used AMD cpus since K6-2 (then Athlon 1Ghz, Athlon XP 2600+, and Athlon x64 4200) until I finally went to Intel with i7-860 7 years ago and has been Intel ever since. This might be the last chance I would give them to switch me over.
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