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[AMD] Breakthrough Performance of “Zen” (Head to Head with Broadwell-E!) - Page 40

post #391 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Perhaps, but I bet his "assumption" will end up being spot-on. Will just have to bookmark this page so I can remind you of this in 2018! wink.gif

Sometimes wild guesses and/or unfounded hopes turn out to be true.

Evidence and actual deductive reasoning generally provide for more reliable forecasting, however.
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post #392 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Sometimes wild guesses and/or unfounded hopes turn out to be true.

Evidence and actual deductive reasoning generally provide for more reliable forecasting, however.

In the absence of evidence people are free to make predictions based on whatever they like. We won't know anything for fact until Zen releases, but the promising rumors and people involved with its design point to a good product. Still just a guess but we will see...
post #393 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

In the absence of evidence people are free to make predictions based on whatever they like. We won't know anything for fact until Zen releases, but the promising rumors and people involved with its design point to a good product. Still just a guess but we will see...

We have at least one set of credible benchmarks (released by AMD themselves) and a moderate amount of detail on Zen's architecture.

That's far more than nothing, and it doesn't support the idea that Zen+ is going to stomp all over Cannonlake/Icelake and Skylake-E/whatever comes after that.

I certainly think Zen will be a good product, but a lot of the most positive expectations are utterly unfounded.
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post #394 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

We have at least one set of credible benchmarks (released by AMD themselves) and a moderate amount of detail on Zen's architecture.

That's far more than nothing, and it doesn't support the idea that Zen+ is going to stomp all over Cannonlake/Icelake and Skylake-E/whatever comes after that.

I certainly think Zen will be a good product, but a lot of the most positive expectations are utterly unfounded.

Dont look like there are any heat and power consumption stats. If it takes like 800w to run the cpu then it does not matter how fast it could be.

I dont think there is any public figure except we saw it can run a game for like a minute but may be with four titan x and not much cpu.
Edited by espn - 8/23/16 at 10:59pm
post #395 of 580
I think AMD have good chance to fight against Intel and NVIDIA if price of 8 Core Zen is good.
Many people will build new AMD RIG even if they have Intel only because low performance improvements for last few years.
I think that good part of old gamers cross on console in past years only thanks to NVIDIA and Intel domination and highest prices.
We wait Maximus 9 board and Crosshair 5 is launched in same time with Maximus 4. Intel give improvements for 5 generations as they should for 2.
People completely forgot how much IT Company could launch good product if they want. Look now and GDDR6 will be launched instead HBM... Samsung games.

But chance for AMD is Dual Socket ROG Motherboard for max 280-300$, two 8 core Zen for 500$ and Vega CF... everything together for total around 2000$.
Hynix could optimize some cheaper but good DDR4 4x8GB for AMD.
That customers with such RIG have CPU performance as i7-6950X even on stock frequency would be great and Vega CF better GPU performance than NVIDIA Pascal TITAN.
For 2000$ everything. Than they have chance to back on market.

Intel made huge mistake because in last moment decide to sell i7-6950X for 1700$ and i7-6900K for 1000$. If Zen give same performance for 200-250$ people will be angry.,
I mean Intel sell 2C/4T and 4C/8T how long... Even their Skylake i5 4 core CPU without HT Link is almost 300$ at launch date. Now is over, they have no time to fix Skylake-EX and Kaby Lake.
Only higher frequency than plan, but result will be lower OC. People will hate i7K capable to work 200-300MHz higher frequency.
Everything could be much better with i7-6850K for 400$, they should remove completely i7-6800K. And i7-6900K for 600$ and i7-6950X for 1000$.
Now maybe even 1000$ will be expensive for him. At least people who bought X99 have chance to improve performance with more cores if price drop.
And investing 500$ in Maximus VIII Z170 and 400$ in 4 core CPU maybe will be stupid idea. But I told people to think 2 years in future not 6 months.
i7-6700K offer 14.000 in Firestrike, i7-5820K overclocked is on around 17.000. Again that's better compare to new Zen with 8 core and people could buy i7-6900K if price drop.
With Z170 only option is i7-7700K with 4.5GHz Turbo clock. That's highest Intels Turbo Frequency ever and probably they have good reason for that and they rumors probably tell that AMD have something good. But they done similar thing and with i7-4790K, maybe Intel only want to force people to replace Skylake.
This will be interesting.
Edited by Vlada011 - 8/23/16 at 11:36pm
post #396 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

IF Zen brings competitive performance I think it's safe to extrapolate that Zen+ would offer rough parity. All of this is incredible when AMD's R&D budget is about what Intel sets aside for garden maintenance at their HQ.

I believe Dr. Su said that Zen had the largest budget of any project in AMD history. Add to that someone like Jim Keller, and it is very possible we have parity with Intel out of the gate.

EDIT:

People keep talking about efficiency and performance of the design. Jim Keller has been apart of some of the best designs, in both regards, in the world. The original FX, Apple's A series, and others. AMD is only going to benefit from all his experience up to this point. I would wager that any limits to the initial release of Zen are going to be due to fab, and not design.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 8/23/16 at 11:51pm
    
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post #397 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post


I believe Dr. Su said that Zen had the largest budget of any project in AMD history. Add to that someone like Jim Keller, and it is very possible we have parity with Intel out of the gate.

EDIT:

People keep talking about efficiency and performance of the design. Jim Keller has been apart of some of the best designs, in both regards, in the world. The original FX, Apple's A series, and others. AMD is only going to benefit from all his experience up to this point. I would wager that any limits to the initial release of Zen are going to be due to fab, and not design.

 

I agree for the most part, except that I think initial Zen will be competitive if not quite cleanly even. IMO, Jim Keller's a lock in terms of avoiding a disaster. The guy has a history of successful and forward-looking designs. My comment about the budget is merely to point out that with the growth Intel and Nvidia have seen over the past decade, AMD's level of competition is already impressive. It will be all the more so when a Keller design brings Intel performance with AMD features like near-universally unlocked chips and the ever-present value play (not being the "cheap" option does not preclude aggressive pricing). AMD's putting so much on Zen that I just can't see it flopping.

     
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post #398 of 580
...and they mentioned Jesus 1h and 18 minutes ago tongue.gif.

You know, there is a saying , past performance does not reflect future performance. As a consequence, just because the Messiah designed once a good chip, it does not mean, that he will bury INTEL this time around. Many tend to forget that INTEL is pretty much the most influential player in this game at the moment.

Expecting cheap 8 cores from AMD is like stroking a wooden leg and saying how good it feels. Seriously, AMD needs to give something back to their investors and it will be well priced products. They will charge close to 1000 dollars for their best chip, I guarantee it. Those who do not see this, step away from the keyboard, you are too blind to see what you type thumb.gif.
 
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post #399 of 580
I have no idea how people above type so many words have serious confidence while we just saw it can run a game for awhile but nothing else. May be the game is ran with 1000w for cpu with 4 titan x sli to do that.
post #400 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post

...and they mentioned Jesus 1h and 18 minutes ago tongue.gif.

You know, there is a saying , past performance does not reflect future performance. As a consequence, just because the Messiah designed once a good chip, it does not mean, that he will bury INTEL this time around. Many tend to forget that INTEL is pretty much the most influential player in this game at the moment.

Expecting cheap 8 cores from AMD is like stroking a wooden leg and saying how good it feels. Seriously, AMD needs to give something back to their investors and it will be well priced products. They will charge close to 1000 dollars for their best chip, I guarantee it. Those who do not see this, step away from the keyboard, you are too blind to see what you type thumb.gif.

 

I don't think that anybody is forgetting that Intel is the dominant force in its industry. At all. That's just a goofy statement. Also, past performance may not necessarily indicate future performance but it certainly informs it, as does the fact that Keller's not a one-hit wonder; he's had success several times over. His involvement in Zen is hardly incidental.

 

As to the 'cheap 8 cores' and giving 'something back to their investors'? AMD wants marketshare, marketshare makes the stock number go up. Stock number go up, investor happy go up. It's fairly simple. I think it's foolish to expect them to not price aggressively. In my opinion, this means the majority of Zen SKU's will be nearer i5/i7 mainstream prices than the prices of the HEDT range. Haswell-ish IPC would dictate this sort of pricing, as the 5820k would be a direct competitor at a mainstream i7 price. Remember what Lord Huang has taught us, the competition dictates the price.

     
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Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
LG DVD RW Swiftech H220-X2 Swiftech Komodo RX-ECO Vega Water Block XSPC EX240 Rad 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
Gentle Typhoon 120mm x4 Ubuntu 17.10 w/ custom kernel Windows 10 Pro Pixio PX277 27" 1440p 144Hz DP-Adaptive Sync w... 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
JAR-OWL J1 Rainbow LED Mechanical SeaSonic X-Series 1050w Gold+ Corsair 760T Zowie FK1 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Razer Firefly Plantronics Rig 500e Gaming Headset Marantz Pro MPH-1 Monitoring Headphones S.M.S.L SD-793II Audio DAC + Headphone Amplifier 
Other
Xbox One Controller 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-4790k @ 4.6GHz Asrock Z97 Extreme6 EVGA GTX 1070 SC Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) @ 2133 10-10-10-... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Intel 530 Series 480GB SSD Seagate 2TB SSHD LG DVD RW Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 40" Vizio HDTV HP Generic EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650w 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Carbide 300R Logitech Generic HyperX Cloud 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-6300 @ 4.3GHz 1.35v Biostar TA970 v5.3 MSI HD 6950 2GB G.Skill Ripjaws Z 16GB (4x4GB) 1600 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Cryorig H5 Ultimate Corsair AF120 (White LED) x3 Corsair AF140 (White LED) x2 Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell S2440L Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 EVGA B2 850w Corsair 300R 
Mouse
SteelSeries Rival 300 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen 7 1700X @ 4.0 GHz 1.37v o/s  Biostar X370 GT7 Sapphire Radeon RX Vega 64 8GB HBM2 G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) @ 32... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Biostar M200-240 240GB m.2 SATA SSD (Win) Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD (Linux) SanDisk Ultra II 480GB SSD (Games) Seagate 2TB SSHD (Storage) 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
LG DVD RW Swiftech H220-X2 Swiftech Komodo RX-ECO Vega Water Block XSPC EX240 Rad 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
Gentle Typhoon 120mm x4 Ubuntu 17.10 w/ custom kernel Windows 10 Pro Pixio PX277 27" 1440p 144Hz DP-Adaptive Sync w... 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
JAR-OWL J1 Rainbow LED Mechanical SeaSonic X-Series 1050w Gold+ Corsair 760T Zowie FK1 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Razer Firefly Plantronics Rig 500e Gaming Headset Marantz Pro MPH-1 Monitoring Headphones S.M.S.L SD-793II Audio DAC + Headphone Amplifier 
Other
Xbox One Controller 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-4790k @ 4.6GHz Asrock Z97 Extreme6 EVGA GTX 1070 SC Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) @ 2133 10-10-10-... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Intel 530 Series 480GB SSD Seagate 2TB SSHD LG DVD RW Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 40" Vizio HDTV HP Generic EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650w 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Carbide 300R Logitech Generic HyperX Cloud 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-6300 @ 4.3GHz 1.35v Biostar TA970 v5.3 MSI HD 6950 2GB G.Skill Ripjaws Z 16GB (4x4GB) 1600 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Cryorig H5 Ultimate Corsair AF120 (White LED) x3 Corsair AF140 (White LED) x2 Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell S2440L Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 EVGA B2 850w Corsair 300R 
Mouse
SteelSeries Rival 300 
  hide details  
Reply
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [AMD] Breakthrough Performance of “Zen” (Head to Head with Broadwell-E!)