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[TH]AMD Stock Continues To Skyrocket After Zen Launch, Up 330 Percent This Year - Page 7

post #61 of 68
At least in the US (and the EU as well, since both Microsoft and Google fell afoul, though I don't know the actual statute), all that is required is "significant and durable market power", not an actual monopoly. Intel clearly has that in servers, as Microsoft does in desktop OS, and you could probably make a case for that applying to laptop CPUs as well. Perhaps even desktop - Intel has had, what, 70+% of the desktop market for several years?
Edited by Forceman - 8/20/16 at 2:34pm
post #62 of 68

And now I've gone down the rabbit-hole.

 

https://www.justice.gov/atr/competition-and-monopoly-single-firm-conduct-under-section-2-sherman-act-chapter-2

 

Quote:
 Monopoly power entails both greater and more durable power over price than mere market power and serves as an important screen for section 2 cases. As a practical matter, a market share of greater than fifty percent has been necessary for courts to find the existence of monopoly power. If a firm has maintained a market share in excess of two-thirds for a significant period and the firm's market share is unlikely to be eroded in the near future, the Department believes that such facts ordinarily should establish a rebuttable presumption that the firm possesses monopoly power. 

 

This is very interesting. I'm inclined to research it from a US PoV as I think that any real antitrust/monopoly intervention would have to be rooted in American courts to really put a hurting on Intel as that's their home-base. 

 

Quote:
 "[A] firm cannot possess monopoly power in a market unless that market is also protected by significant barriers to entry."(50) In particular, a high market share provides no reliable indication of the potential for rivals to supply market demand. Even when no current rival exists, an attempt to increase price above the competitive level may lead to an influx of competitors sufficient to make that price increase unprofitable.(51) In that case, the firm lacks monopoly power even though it may currently have a dominant market share.(52)

 

It just gets more interesting the further you go. At this point though, I think that Intel would've already faced some kind of regulatory penalty as they meet a number of the criteria, which leads me back to thinking that the x86 market is not taken piecemeal but as a part of a larger industry including ARM and other semiconductor industry.

     
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post #63 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Both of those cases were because the companies tried to leverage their monopoly in one area to influence another (i.e. unfair business practices), not simply because they had a monopoly. And for regulatory purposes, Microsoft already has a monopoly in desktop OS (which is why they got into trouble), whether there is a second competitor there or not doesn't matter. There is no regulatory difference between having a dominant market position and being a sole competitor (except one being easier to identify).

Edit: neither the US nor EU have laws against monopolies, the relevant laws are antitrust, and relate to anticompetitive behavior. Having a monopoly, in and of itself, is not illegal.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/monopolization-defined
Not all monopolies are illegal, although some are, but illegal isn't really the correct term anyway. They are simply undesirable, which is why competition laws are designed to prevent them from forming in the first place.

In cases where they form naturally steps are usually taken to either heavily regulate the monopolised industry to prevent abuse, convert it to a public service or break up the company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

And now I've gone down the rabbit-hole.

https://www.justice.gov/atr/competition-and-monopoly-single-firm-conduct-under-section-2-sherman-act-chapter-2

This is very interesting. I'm inclined to research it from a US PoV as I think that any real antitrust/monopoly intervention would have to be rooted in American courts to really put a hurting on Intel as that's their home-base.

It just gets more interesting the further you go. At this point though, I think that Intel would've already faced some kind of regulatory penalty as they meet a number of the criteria, which leads me back to thinking that the x86 market is not taken piecemeal but as a part of a larger industry including ARM and other semiconductor industry.
That's interesting, although I doubt how they define individual markets is specified very accurately. IIRC though AMD's last antitrust complaint against Intel was specifically for abusing it's position as the leading manufacturer of x86 chips, so I don't think the US courts have any issue with defining it as a distinct market.

I don't know much about US legislation, but usually in the EU an antitrust investigation (like the current one with Google) follows a complaint that the courts will investigate. I assume the market segment in question would be defined in the complaint, and the courts would decide whether the complaint was valid and what action (if any) would need to be taken.

I suspect the main reason they haven't done anything to date is simply because they still have a competitor, and as that bit of the Sherman act you quoted says "a high market share provides no reliable indication of the potential for rivals to supply market demand."
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post #64 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

This is very interesting. I'm inclined to research it from a US PoV as I think that any real antitrust/monopoly intervention would have to be rooted in American courts to really put a hurting on Intel as that's their home-base. 

Good luck getting the FTC to drive forward and/or enforce any policies that actually favor the consumer over their corporate overlords biggrin.gif
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post #65 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post


Good luck getting the FTC to drive forward and/or enforce any policies that actually favor the consumer over their corporate overlords biggrin.gif

 

Oh, I agree of course. I'd not count on it in my country either. For me this is as theoretical a discussion as the essence of consciousness. :2coolsmil 

     
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post #66 of 68
Quote:
the antitrust laws have had the same basic objective: to protect the process of competition for the benefit of consumers, making sure there are strong incentives for businesses to operate efficiently, keep prices down, and keep quality up.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/antitrust-laws
post #67 of 68
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post #68 of 68
My God are you guys still repeating the same anti trust discussions thats been done over and over and over and over and over again ever since Faildozer arrived?
Give it a rest please

AMD isnt going bankrupt. The worst thing that could happen is part of the company being bought, like the RTG group and placed in a company with bigger funds to grow their GPU IPs.
Zen is a guarantee that AMD have a competing product against Intel in the CPU space and will survive.

They would never have spent so many years and neglected GPU development and used most funds for CPUs if they didnt trust Zen will do great. AMD isnt so stupid to do the same mistake again. Which almost bankrupted the company. A second Faildozer would be the final nail in the coffin and thats not happening
Edited by iLeakStuff - 8/21/16 at 8:50am
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [TH]AMD Stock Continues To Skyrocket After Zen Launch, Up 330 Percent This Year