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[TweakTown]DirectX 12 mGPU and Vulkan Support on the way for Cryengine - Page 5

post #41 of 112
Yeah I still don't know how good Vulkan is since I've never seen any DX11/12 vs Vulkan benchmarks
post #42 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post


I'm afraid to remind you that mantle is dead.
Vulkan does not equal mantle, and drivers and performance has been increased in DX12 since then quite a bit.





Quote:
We’ll start things off with the Vulkan API itself. Since Khronos’s last major press update almost a year ago in March of 2015, not a great deal has changed on the technical side from a high level. After being gifted Mantle 1.0 from AMD – an action that significantly sped up the development process and bypassed the need to figure out some fundamental questions about how the API should be designed – the consortium went about adapting Mantle to serve as a wider, more generic API suitable for hardware from multiple vendors across multiple OSes.

The end result is that Vulkan has its roots firmly in Mantle, through Khronos has worked to make it very clear that multiple vendors are responsible for contributing IP that ultimately went into Vulkan. And while the specific low-level details of the API are beyond the scope of this article, I do know that the shader resource binding system is significantly different from Mantle, and that’s not the only system that was updated or overhauled during Vulkan’s development.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10035/vulkan-10-released





Edited by PontiacGTX - 8/20/16 at 2:44pm
post #43 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post


thought it was a pretty clear question.
read bolded below:
last comparison to dx11 let alone there is NOTHING for dx12 is:


but that is 6 months old.

sure it slaps around OpenGL but now to extrapolate dx12 performance; possibly add 10%-20% increase over dx11 and it looks vulkan could be just 60% of dx12 performance. hell even account for the hit nvidia takes with async compute and it's still behind by a far percentage.

please, if you're going to go all vulkan fanboy due to MS hate - don't bother since it won't bring a productive discussion to the table.

that would be great.

No, No, and just plain no.

You can't really take a game, designed explicitly for an older API then ported to a newer API and expect anything good from that. Since Mantle/Vulcan/DX12 have essentially the same major performance boosts, if those benchmarks had DX12 in them it would probably be just as crappy.

AMD designed GCN round Mantle, then somehow managed to get into DX in the form of DX12 and OGL in the form of Vulcan. Now for some stupid reason, people want to compare DX11 to Vulcan? Are you serious? Like for reals for reals? Have people not followed on the history of Mantle since it's inception cause I know it was huge talk on these forums.
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post #44 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post


thought it was a pretty clear question.
read bolded below:
last comparison to dx11 let alone there is NOTHING for dx12 is:


but that is 6 months old.

sure it slaps around OpenGL but now to extrapolate dx12 performance; possibly add 10%-20% increase over dx11 and it looks vulkan could be just 60% of dx12 performance. hell even account for the hit nvidia takes with async compute and it's still behind by a far percentage.

please, if you're going to go all vulkan fanboy due to MS hate - don't bother since it won't bring a productive discussion to the table.

that would be great.

No, No, and just plain no.

You can't really take a game, designed explicitly for an older API then ported to a newer API and expect anything good from that. Since Mantle/Vulcan/DX12 have essentially the same major performance boosts, if those benchmarks had DX12 in them it would probably be just as crappy.

lol! doesn't matter ANY game with more than one API will have either of the two "ported." so yes yes yes yes just yes.
Quote:
AMD designed GCN round Mantle, then somehow managed to get into DX in the form of DX12 and OGL in the form of Vulcan. Now for some stupid reason, people want to compare DX11 to Vulcan? Are you serious? Like for reals for reals? Have people not followed on the history of Mantle since it's inception cause I know it was huge talk on these forums.
funny that. GCN was released before mantle so maybe refresh the history yourself? seriously, you're saying they (actually johanson of DICE) made a low level API before there was the hardware to run it?

full stop.
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post #45 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

lol! doesn't matter ANY game with more than one API will have either of the two "ported." so yes yes yes yes just yes.
funny that. GCN was released before mantle so maybe refresh the history yourself? seriously, you're saying they (actually johanson of DICE) made a low level API before there was the hardware to run it?

full stop.

Gcn was out around 2011, mantle was officially outed a bit later. But knowing API development times, there is a probability that gcn was created knowing mantle was soon tome come. I don't believe in coincidences, things like asynchronous compute were NOT in dx 11 yet all gcn have it. Why?

2nd, no no no. When you typically have a game engine not explicitly designed with an API in mind it does not preform as well as the API the game was designed with in mind.

As well as the freaking obvious, dx12 and Vulcan stem from the same base code path. It's proven that dx12 is better.

It would be like a new small block v8 made, two new designs branched off. And you are comparing one of those branches to the previous v6 model. No no and no. Dx11 is horrendous in performance. Not to mention Vulcan is OpenGL-next, which was written from scratch. It was designed with performance from Kronos day 1.

Yes yes yes. So really think about why gcn 1 has a base feature set that shines in mantle, now in dx12/Vulcan. It all goes with the idea from and back when the API craze started. Heterogeneous Computing? Amds announcement that gcn would be around for a while.

Seriously that's just coincidence that AMD designed a chip that can do compute and graphics work at the same time while no known API even had plans for that? For real? No, this was staged. Amd couldn't have released mantle like that without this planned in hardware. miracles and coincidences don't exist like that, a uarch doesn't just magically have all the properties of a game changing API just by random vision.
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post #46 of 112

This thread has hit level ridiculous as the trolls have revealed themselves.

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post #47 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

lol! doesn't matter ANY game with more than one API will have either of the two "ported." so yes yes yes yes just yes.
funny that. GCN was released before mantle so maybe refresh the history yourself? seriously, you're saying they (actually johanson of DICE) made a low level API before there was the hardware to run it?

full stop.

Gcn was out around 2011, mantle was officially outed a bit later. But knowing API development times, there is a probability that gcn was created knowing mantle was soon tome come. I don't believe in coincidences, things like asynchronous compute were NOT in dx 11 yet all gcn have it. Why?

ask AMD:
http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/gcn
Quote:
Designed to push not only the boundaries of DirectX® 11 gaming, the GCN Architecture is also AMD's first design specifically engineered for general computing. Representing the cutting edge of AMD’s graphics expertise, GCN GPUs are more than capable of handling workloads-and programming languages-traditionally exclusive to the main processor. Coupled with the dramatic rise of GPU-aware programming languages like C++ AMP and OpenCL™, the GCN Architecture is the right architecture at the right time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

2nd, no no no. When you typically have a game engine not explicitly designed with an API in mind it does not preform as well as the API the game was designed with in mind.

As well as the freaking obvious, dx12 and Vulcan stem from the same base code path. It's proven that dx12 is better.

It would be like a new small block v8 made, two new designs branched off. And you are comparing one of those branches to the previous v6 model. No no and no. Dx11 is horrendous in performance. Not to mention Vulcan is OpenGL-next, which was written from scratch. It was designed with performance from Kronos day 1.

Yes yes yes. So really think about why gcn 1 has a base feature set that shines in mantle, now in dx12/Vulcan. It all goes with the idea from and back when the API craze started. Heterogeneous Computing? Amds announcement that gcn would be around for a while.

Seriously that's just coincidence that AMD designed a chip that can do compute and graphics work at the same time while no known API even had plans for that? For real? No, this was staged. Amd couldn't have released mantle like that without this planned in hardware. miracles and coincidences don't exist like that, a uarch doesn't just magically have all the properties of a game changing API just by random vision.

i am not going to dispute that a game first released with one API would likely not perform as well as with the second had it been developed with it in mind originally. however your comment:
Quote:
if those benchmarks had DX12 in them it would probably be just as crappy.

would not be correct since both hitman and TR had performance increases with DX12 over DX11 though both games were released with DX11.
(quick google search)



so please add data not speculation (esp leave out the car analogies.)

thanks.
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post #48 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

ask AMD:
http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/gcn

i am not going to dispute that a game first released with one API would likely not perform as well as with the second had it been developed with it in mind originally. however your comment:
would not be correct since both hitman and TR had performance increases with DX12 over DX11 though both games were released with DX11.
(quick google search)



so please add data not speculation (esp leave out the car analogies.)

thanks.

Even though we have newer games which Vulcan and proper implementation, doom, shine? As well as no fully Dx12 game exists. But meh.

As to gcn/mantle... if by 2013 they were working with a game dev means they have:

1) a working API

2) working drivers

Now I'm gone to say this blunt. There is no way in under 2 years this happened. So that means development of this software happened before the release of gcn. Probably longer, considering AMD had no previous experience with graphics API design.

What's funny is, mantle was used over dx11 due to its bonus. Vulcan inherits that bonus, yet somehow that bonus doesn't exist. Weird, because multiple developers have said dx11 cannot do what properly implemented mantle does.

Does that logic follow properly implemented Vulcan? Who knows.
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post #49 of 112

Using the Talos Principle to compare Vulkan and DX11 would be inaccurate, because their beta Vulkan implementation is not even remotely finished, and still suffers from numerous bugs.

post #50 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

ask AMD:
http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/gcn

i am not going to dispute that a game first released with one API would likely not perform as well as with the second had it been developed with it in mind originally. however your comment:
would not be correct since both hitman and TR had performance increases with DX12 over DX11 though both games were released with DX11.
(quick google search)



so please add data not speculation (esp leave out the car analogies.)

thanks.
Even though we have newer games which Vulcan and proper implementation, doom, shine? As well as no fully Dx12 game exists. But meh.

As to gcn/mantle... if by 2013 they were working with a game dev means they have:

1) a working API

2) working drivers

Now I'm gone to say this blunt. There is no way in under 2 years this happened. So that means development of this software happened before the release of gcn. Probably longer, considering AMD had no previous experience with graphics API design.

What's funny is, mantle was used over dx11 due to its bonus. Vulcan inherits that bonus, yet somehow that bonus doesn't exist. Weird, because multiple developers have said dx11 cannot do what properly implemented mantle does.

Does that logic follow properly implemented Vulcan? Who knows.

well yeah and that's why AMD went to johan andersson @DICE to help develop mantle. did anyone see anyone from AMD at conferences when presenting mantle?

NO. they saw and heard johan; it was only later that robert hallok started working with other developers to incorporate mantle in their game engines.

*sigh* its always the same in vulkan/dx12 discussions; it always degenerates into another mantle history lesson . .

so yeah on topic -
great. crytek going to have a bunch of free to play games with vulkan and dx12 . . . yay. well more implementation would hopefully lead to better performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFL Replica View Post

Using the Talos Principle to compare Vulkan and DX11 would be inaccurate, because their beta Vulkan implementation is not even remotely finished, and still suffers from numerous bugs.

their beta implementation is 6 months and several patches old. one can always check the steam discussions for the improvements since it was released as some post their benchmarks each patch/driver such as:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/257510/discussions/0/412447331651720139/?ctp=21#c360670708777165667:
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