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[TH] PCI Express 4.0 Brings 16 GT/s And At Least 300 Watts At The Slot - Page 5

post #41 of 151
Pcie 4.0 with the release of Kaby lake? Intel 2** chips and pcie 4.0? Sounds promising but I'm not sure if even a Titan x pascal is saturating an entire pcie 3.0 lane...
post #42 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cakewalk_S View Post

Pcie 4.0 with the release of Kaby lake? Intel 2** chips and pcie 4.0? Sounds promising but I'm not sure if even a Titan x pascal is saturating an entire pcie 3.0 lane...

PCIe 4.0 bandwidth won't do much for GPUs. It will, however, be a big deal when the 3D XPoint and Z-NAND SSDs start becoming popular.
 
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post #43 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Is there anyone else out there that finds this a little bit ironic? I mean, they're just moving the power output to the slot, but in the end, high-end cards that use more than 300-watts will still have add-in power cables. So.... what's the point?

What 300+ watt high-end cards are you referring to? Also, isn't there a drive for lower power consumption and better efficiency? Seems to me that all the high end GPUs from the recent generations are under 300W if you exclude dual-GPU solutions.






I suppose you could make for an argument of future cards having an artificial overclock limit due to a power limitations...

We should be glad GPUs are now made on 14/16nm biggrin.gif

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post #44 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLAWNOOB View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
We should be glad GPUs are now made on 14/16nm biggrin.gif

]

apples to apples smile.gif


this increased power limit in the slot might require a new atx24 pin
Edited by jmcosta - 8/21/16 at 1:42pm
post #45 of 151
Hey guys we got something super awesome new amazing super duper spectacular for you:!@!#!@!
What if I told you you would never need a additional power adapters ever again. Not only that also bacon!
With all new robotic extreme PCI-expressular 4.0 you will need not 2 not 1 but zero additional connectors.
And if you think by yourself but how! It is simple we took the power from the PSU and connected it trough very thin traces with no current carrying capability at all to your graphics card. And as a bonus we didn't even take the time to tin these high current traces. We confirmed with motherboard manufactures and they confirmed that these boards would absolutely cause a spark in any household. It would also really help people upgrade more often that is just how good we are.

Here is a photo of our lead engineer:



PCI-SIG is not in anyway liable for any hurt to people or property and affirms that people using PCI-expressular 4.0 should keep a fire extinguisher at hand at all times.
post #46 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrStrat007 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raketkirurgen View Post

4x75 is not anywhere near 1000+...
Also they might make the move to 12VDC, which potentially won't make traces involved at all.

I meant total power draw through the motherboard. Those of us who have 2x 300-Watt GPU's which have been OC'ed past that limit and overclocked CPU's as well, that's a lot of power flowing through one component. 8x75 = 600 + whatever the CPU is at, figure another 150-200 at high clock, 800ish is not far from 1000...

Traces will always be required so long as power needs to move from point A to point B. Whether they're on an outside layer or sandwiched somewhere in the middle we don't and won't know but they would still be needed.

Doesn't seem to bother you that the PSU PCB already does this. Or that GPUs do this. 295X2 is fine, and it runs like 500w in far under half the space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

Then HPC will either go with AMD incoming interconnect or Nvlink?

Not even remotely relevant.
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post #47 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post


Not even remotely relevant.
why not if they are supposed to deliver 3x-5x Bandwidth PCIe2/3?
Edited by PontiacGTX - 8/21/16 at 2:14pm
post #48 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrStrat007 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raketkirurgen View Post

4x75 is not anywhere near 1000+...
Also they might make the move to 12VDC, which potentially won't make traces involved at all.

I meant total power draw through the motherboard. Those of us who have 2x 300-Watt GPU's which have been OC'ed past that limit and overclocked CPU's as well, that's a lot of power flowing through one component. 8x75 = 600 + whatever the CPU is at, figure another 150-200 at high clock, 800ish is not far from 1000...

Traces will always be required so long as power needs to move from point A to point B. Whether they're on an outside layer or sandwiched somewhere in the middle we don't and won't know but they would still be needed.

Doesn't seem to bother you that the PSU PCB already does this. Or that GPUs do this. 295X2 is fine, and it runs like 500w in far under half the space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

Then HPC will either go with AMD incoming interconnect or Nvlink?

Not even remotely relevant.

PSU PCB have very thick traces.

If motherboard manufactures are forced to use thicker traces, cost might go up a little.

I'm more concerned about how they plan to deliver the 300W thru the tiny little pins on the PCIe slots.

It doesn't look like it can handle that much current.
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post #49 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLAWNOOB View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrStrat007 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raketkirurgen View Post

4x75 is not anywhere near 1000+...
Also they might make the move to 12VDC, which potentially won't make traces involved at all.

I meant total power draw through the motherboard. Those of us who have 2x 300-Watt GPU's which have been OC'ed past that limit and overclocked CPU's as well, that's a lot of power flowing through one component. 8x75 = 600 + whatever the CPU is at, figure another 150-200 at high clock, 800ish is not far from 1000...

Traces will always be required so long as power needs to move from point A to point B. Whether they're on an outside layer or sandwiched somewhere in the middle we don't and won't know but they would still be needed.

Doesn't seem to bother you that the PSU PCB already does this. Or that GPUs do this. 295X2 is fine, and it runs like 500w in far under half the space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

Then HPC will either go with AMD incoming interconnect or Nvlink?

Not even remotely relevant.

PSU PCB have very thick traces.

If motherboard manufactures are forced to use thicker traces, cost might go up a little.

I'm more concerned about how they plan to deliver the 300W thru the tiny little pins on the PCIe slots.

It doesn't look like it can handle that much current.

75W can be done using the V12 lines you see here at 15w per pin. They need to make 20-40 of these pins, which could be done by expanding the slot to the "back" without breaking physical compatibility, or by adding an extension similar to PCI-x, or simply by re-purposing pins and deciding what is used based on startup chatter like most cards currently do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post


Not even remotely relevant.
why not if they are supposed to deliver 3x-5x Bandwidth PCIe2/3?

1) AMD has no such solution.
2) The entire point of using PCI-e is that it is universal, like USB.
3) Absolutely no one but IBM supports NVLink, and even then only on custom chips.
4) AMD will never support NVLink.
5) Intel will never support NVLink.
6) PCI-e and NVLink are not compatible with one another, and can not be used in each other's slots unless the card supports both.
7) Even if two cards support NVLink, it will not be usable in a PCI-e slot as the PCI-e controller will have no idea what to do with it, forcing them to run in PCI-e mode anyway.
8) Adding NVLink takes die space that could otherwise be used for other things, and they will not sacrifice PCI-e lanes, thus breaking compatibility with every other add-in card ever made, for NVLink except on custom order.
9) Bandwidth doesn't mean anything on it's own.

NVLink is not a standard. It is a custom order. Only PowerPC is currently even capable of supporting it, and even then you need a special order chip and MB to use it.
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post #50 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

75W can be done using the V12 lines you see here at 15w per pin. They need to make 20-40 of these pins, which could be done by expanding the slot to the "back" without breaking physical compatibility, or by adding an extension similar to PCI-x, or simply by re-purposing pins and deciding what is used based on startup chatter like most cards currently do.
1) AMD has no such solution.
2) The entire point of using PCI-e is that it is universal, like USB.
3) Absolutely no one but IBM supports NVLink, and even then only on custom chips.
4) AMD will never support NVLink.
5) Intel will never support NVLink.
6) PCI-e and NVLink are not compatible with one another, and can not be used in each other's slots unless the card supports both.
7) Even if two cards support NVLink, it will not be usable in a PCI-e slot as the PCI-e controller will have no idea what to do with it, forcing them to run in PCI-e mode anyway.
8) Adding NVLink takes die space that could otherwise be used for other things, and they will not sacrifice PCI-e lanes, thus breaking compatibility with every other add-in card ever made, for NVLink except on custom order.
9) Bandwidth doesn't mean anything on it's own.

NVLink is not a standard. It is a custom order. Only PowerPC is currently even capable of supporting it, and even then you need a special order chip and MB to use it.
I thought the AMD coherent interconnect fabric was for communication between CPU and PCie
I guess the writer misunderstood it, and it was just for Hypertransport
http://wccftech.com/amd-coherent-interconnect-fabric-gpus-cpus-apus/
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