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[arstechnica] How the NSA snooped on encrypted Internet traffic for a decade - Page 3

post #21 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by prjindigo View Post

And its 100% legal, morally justified and not in violation of any laws concerning your rights.
Funny thing about morality is its about as subjective as the meaning of life. Justify it however you want but I find it unjustifiable when comparing the amount of data they intake and the amount of crap they have been unable to stop. Just because something does and always has happened, does not mean its OK. As for Snowden, I like what he did. I prefer to know what our overlords are up to whether they want it disclosed or not.
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post #22 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by prjindigo View Post

Nothing new. Freaking out about it like it somehow abridges a right YOU'VE NEVER HAD ANYWAY is imbecilic. You have a right to Confedentiality and the only time that's been broken was when Snowden freaked out and bailed on us.

Snowden actually had a conscience and it was his right to inform the public on what the Government was doing which had for years denied any spying upon it's own people.

That accusation of accusing him of being a traitor is the same idiotic Nazi-like accusations during the late 1930's when anyone who doesn't support them is a spy or traitor. Idiotic comments such as yours never change, it just reapplied over and over again when the establishment feels threatened about it's actual activities, then applies the same old 'traitor' tactic upon anyone who holds them to account when abusing your own constitution (in fact you might as well flush it down the toilet since it's actually worthless now).

We need more whistle blowers to uncover the gross injustices committed by ALL regimes around the globe, just because it's American, doesn't exempt you from any international laws and treaties.
post #23 of 51
All this hate for our national security agencies yet when a 9/11 event happens everybody is screaming "why the hell didn't the NSA do something to prevent this???" These guys successfully thwart terrorist acts every single day, you just rarely hear about all the successes. Unfortunately, national security forces have to be 100% successful all the time while terrorists only have to be successful once to cause mayhem (see Orlando shooting, another case where these same privacy advocates suddenly start crying about why the NSA failed to act).
post #24 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

All this hate for our national security agencies yet when a 9/11 event happens everybody is screaming "why the hell didn't the NSA do something to prevent this???" These guys successfully thwart terrorist acts every single day, you just rarely hear about all the successes. Unfortunately, national security forces have to be 100% successful all the time while terrorists only have to be successful once to cause mayhem (see Orlando shooting, another case where these same privacy advocates suddenly start crying about why the NSA failed to act).

If a 9/11 scale event every single day was the cost of dispensing with this faux security (and it wouldn't be), I'd consider the loss of the latter to be well worth it.

Mosquitoes would still be killing an order of magnitude more people than terrorism.
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post #25 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

If a 9/11 scale event every single day was the cost of dispensing with this faux security (and it wouldn't be), I'd consider the loss of the latter to be well worth it.

Mosquitoes would still be killing an order of magnitude more people than terrorism.

That is just an asinine statement and unworthy even of commentary. rolleyes.gif
post #26 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

That is just an asinine statement and unworthy even of commentary. rolleyes.gif

Yet Blameless is correct. The global number of deaths caused by terrorism last year was approximately 32,000 people, while malaria alone killed over 400,000.
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post #27 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiOfPie View Post

Yet Blameless is correct. The number of deaths caused by terrorism last year was approximately 32,000 people, while malaria alone killed over 400,000.

The victims of the war on terror also amount to several million people, most of them civilians. Not to mention all the wasted tax dollars and impingement on rights and freedoms.

I find it quite ludicrous that anyone who isn't a politician, security officer, government contractor, or purveyor of mainstream shock media, could possibly consider any of it worthwhile as they are literally the only people who benefit in anyway...everyone else loses.
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post #28 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by prjindigo View Post

OH MY GOD THE OUTRAGE, THE HORROR, THE TERRIBLE TERRIBLE GOVERNMENT!


Listen. When I was 6 I heard the term "NSA" and was told it meant "No Such Agency". It was the joke, the big joke about the government. It was a joke about the cults thinking the FBI was listening to them. It was the joke about when people said the CIA was operating inside the US. The NSA is the internal CIA, they have Presidential ordered existence to operate as the agency behind all others. They give the FBI their job list, the CIA their job list and now the DHS their job list. They operated the center in Germany for Germany to watch Germany. They exist and HAVE existed to stand behind every wall in the nation and listen for threats against the United States.

If you think they weren't reading everything that went over all the internets from the start you're crazy ignorant and stupid (definitionally uneducated and not taught to think) on the matter. You have rights against Congress, Senate, CIA, FBI, DEA, NTSB, Sheriff, State and City police. You have rights against Superintendents of schools, transit authority cops, doctors, lawyers, judges, juries and even other people.

The NSA operates on a strict rule that only the information that pertains to threats to the United States and its Citizens is to be presented to other agencies.

Do you know what Snowden did? Snowden violated his contract with YOU. Then he went to Russia and endangered the network that protects you on a daily basis.

The NSA cannot act if you're running a weed farm, selling meth online or raping your daughter. They act if you're talking to terrorists, making destructive devices, researching poisons and dispersal methods.
They don't care about your personal life, but to collect that 1/10,000th of 1% of data that pertains to the acts of terror, mayhem and bloody sedition they have to intercept all of it then filter it out. To do this they have to store large quantities of it on huge server capacity.

They keep you safe from other people's freedom in our nation. They have to do this and will continue to do this flat-out against the walls and petobytes flying in the wind.

And its 100% legal, morally justified and not in violation of any laws concerning your rights.

You might as well try to protest doctors and lawyers and try to sue them for having access to confidential information.

The No Such Agency has been doing this since its creation in 1952.

1952. Nothing new. Freaking out about it like it somehow abridges a right YOU'VE NEVER HAD ANYWAY is imbecilic. You have a right to Confedentiality and the only time that's been broken was when Snowden freaked out and bailed on us.
You argument is that US citizens have no right to privacy; only a right to confidentiality?

That's quite sad.

To argue that it's morally justified is also wrong. People have both a right, and an expectation of privacy.

You can also ask any expert on social engineering just what it means when government has unrestricted access to information on it's citizens. Where you go, how well you sleep, what you do for work, your race, religion, gender "identity", sexual orientation, voting habits, preferred news sources, friends, friends information in relation to your social circle, commonality of your habits and your friend's habits in relation to eachother.

It's a democratic society. I don't think you understand just what that means, as far as keeping the people empowered to combat corruption. I don't think you understand just how consistently, through history, corruption and social engineering has led to new lows for entire civilizations.

Big data puts the integrity of the government at risk. It puts the integrity of the NSA at risk. There is no sufficient recourse if they aim to use big data to cultivate support (or at least complacency) for malicious acts. The threat of public outcry can be anticipated with big data quite easily. The bulk of the population doesn't have the kind of education required to even understand why big data is a tool for social engineering. If you had that kind of education, you would conclude that all major media outlets would need to be of the utmost integrity to mitigate the threat of propaganda. People do understand that media outlets and media delivery services such as Facebook have no integrity, but they have no idea what this means in terms of social engineering, government, and big data.

Protection of privacy is absolutely essential for the protection of a democratic process. As privacy lessens and hardware/software advances continue, the potency of these tools in a democratic system will only increase. It'll become more and more unnerving to contemplate the integrity of "free" information, such as that which you find when you use search engines and browse services like Facebook or Twitter.

When modern conflicts seem to be whitewashed from results, you might have to ask yourself if the government itself is doing the whitewashing -- especially when there are enterprises growing around this type of service.

You can't quite confirm that it's taking place, but you can't help but wonder. This erodes the ability for voters to have confidence in their own ability to determine what candidates can represent their interests. It dissuades many people from involving themselves in politics at all. It also encourages people to take polarized views on the integrity of the government, because politicians are the gateway for these extremely aggressive agencies to make changes concerning their budget and the legality of their actions.

The risks involved with the loss of our democratic process are not to be scoffed at. A typical citizen can't suffer the mental anguish of deciphering the true intent of their political leaders; the mere time required to become a truly informed voter is insurmountable.
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post #29 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

The risks involved with the loss of our democratic process are not to be scoffed at. A typical citizen can't suffer the mental anguish of deciphering the true intent of their political leaders; the mere time required to become a truly informed voter is insurmountable.

The rights that were guaranteed by your early law makers that provided the Bill of Rights, is something truly unique in this world.

We here in our Convict Settlement will never have anything what you currently enjoy and shall never have it in our life times, so we can only envy you for having a Bill of Rights protecting you from the extremes of Government. Although they have indeed tried to attack it by introducing dubious laws to circumvent the essence of your constitution and it needs constant protection from the current regimes, wanting to dissolve your Bill of Rights.

Always protect what you have because it's so easy to lose it, especially now.
post #30 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiOfPie View Post

Yet Blameless is correct. The global number of deaths caused by terrorism last year was approximately 32,000 people, while malaria alone killed over 400,000.

Oh I see, so because malaria kills 400,000 people per year I guess it's cool that ONLY 30,000 people die from terrorism that we could stop? I mean, what's a measly 30,000 people anyway, right? In fact, we could afford to lose way more people cuz terrorism isn't any big deal right? The real threat is the people trying to stop these fanatical murderers from destroying our entire way of life! Sure, what's 30,000 here or 45,000 there when the threat of NSA bureaucrats peeking in your pr0n folders is the real danger here! Hell, 100 times more people die from heart disease every year than from gun shots, I guess we shouldn't worry about stopping murderers either?

This thread has officially entered looney tunes territory... rolleyes.gif
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