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[AMD Investor Presentation - August 2016] - Vega still 6-10 months away - Page 7  

post #61 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Robot View Post

They messed up. Vega 10 should be the enthusiast part.

Nope, Vega 10 is smaller than Vega 11.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tojara View Post

They didn't. The numbers are in order of release, not performance.

This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpjoslee View Post

You seriously think AMD could price HBM2 based GPU for $299? They are desperate for a market share but they are not going to lose their arms and legs for it.

HBM2 is in mass production through Samsung and Hynix. The biggest factor in pricing between GDDR5/X and HBM2 is the need for an interposer. AMD went with passive inteposers on Fiji so we will likely see the same in Vega. Although the interposer does increase the cost of the chip, it also simplifies and cuts costs of the PCB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpjoslee View Post

Also, if Vega 10 performs between 1070 and 1080, why would $500 be a bad price when 1080 is over $700?

Although we are not finding any 1070s available at the price currently, the competing product is positioned at $379. Do I really need to provide a lesson in economics and pricing strategies?
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post #62 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

You cant lie to your investors. Its literally a crime.

People that know anything about business know why vega is being released next year. This is all about cashflow. Vega is nothing compared to zen. Every ounce of amds resources is about launching zen correctly. Zen has the potential to generate billions in revenue. Rather than tens to hundreds of million for an enthusiast class chip.

Amd is launching polaris first was a strategic move to not conceed the oem market to nvidia. But it was clear amd didnt have the cashflow to launch a top to bottom gpu lineup on top of zen in 2016. Amd had to make hard choices and it was the best given their resources. Launching vega along with polaris along with an undelayed zen in 2016 would require amd to have cashflow higher than nvidia. Alot higher. Amd simply doesnt have the money to deal with fab developement and chip cost to launch and develope so many things simultaneously. Especially with their debt rating.

Getting into a fight with nvidia is stupid. Its basically would lead to another fiji like situation where they lose money because they cannot recover their investment. This is because nvidia can out price them because their chips are cheaper to make and the stakes are so much smaller that recovering that investment is more difficult.
It wouldn't be lying. They're saying Vega but they're not saying which Vega, and we know there's Vega 10 and Vega 11. And nVidia announced the GTX 1060 and launched it almost immediately. AMD could do the same with one of the Vegas. Although nVidia was in direct response to the RX 480, they were obviously planning it...
Maybe that's simply me hoping for small Vega in October lol.

It does make sense that all the resources are going into Zen though.

But seriously, I was planning on getting an RX 480, but after the price gouging and how the market looks.. I have no choice but to wait. If it wasn't for Fury having 4GB, I would've gotten one. I mean, they're going for $310 on Amazon right now... That's one heck of a value. Too bad for the old HDMI standard as well...
post #63 of 406

We'll bemoan the lack of an enthusiast-class competitor in the GPU market for the rest of the year but as @tajoh111 astutely recognised, AMD is making difficult, practical choices here. It will be impossible to judge their strategy until after Zen's been released and we've seen what kind of impact it has on the consumer CPU market, and more importantly, the enterprise market with their server chips.

 

As with many around here I was waiting for Zen as a replacement to my 28nm GPU's. Once we saw what Polaris was going to be I knew that if I wanted to scratch the upgrade itch with anything for 2016 it would have to be a 1070 or a 1080. It's pits not having more compelling choices right now but in the long term if we want to have those kinds of choices we need AMD to be competitive. It would take years for another company to step in and reach even AMD's level of competitiveness, even if they managed to negotiate the licensing deals needed in any kind of buyout scenario, and were able to assemble crack teams near-instantaneously.

     
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post #64 of 406
I think there is a meaning behind this. For example if AMD could not release a fast enough GPU right after 1080/1070 they are better off waiting to make something faster. Even if they had something faster it is not going to sell that much if released right now for example of 2-3 months after 1080/1070. Reason being as most people would have gotten a 1080/1070 and would not upgrade to AMD for small difference. They cant beat Nvidia head on even with the better product. They have to slowly match them. A competition right now to 1080 is nothing more than filling for reviewers and mindset of people. Vega has to be more then 1080. If people wanted 1080 performance for $700 they would be rocking a 1080.
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post #65 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

Although we are not finding any 1070s available at the price currently, the competing product is positioned at $379. Do I really need to provide a lesson in economics and pricing strategies?

Oh, no thanks. I am just glad you are not part of AMD's product management team lol. That kind of strategy only works with companies with deeper pockets. Their graphics division still suffers from loss as recently as Q2 of this year. They simply can't afford to sacrifice that much margin, and I don't think AMD would be able to survive going price war against Nvidia as of now.
I expect top Vega part to be $500-600 while cut down version occupies $350-450 price. There is not much reason for AMD to release Vega 10 at $299 as it would only end up cannibalizing RX480 sales with potentially lower margin product.
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post #66 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpjoslee View Post

Oh, no thanks. I am just glad you are not part of AMD's product management team lol. That kind of strategy only works with companies with deeper pockets. Their graphics division still suffers from loss as recently as Q2 of this year. They simply can't afford to sacrifice that much margin, and I don't think AMD would be able to survive going price war against Nvidia as of now.
I expect top Vega part to be $500-600 while cut down version occupies $350-450 price. There is not much reason for AMD to release Vega 10 at $299 as it would only end up cannibalizing RX480 sales with potentially lower margin product.

AMD has to release a faster product for same price.
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post #67 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

AMD has to release a faster product for same price.

More like lower price for similar performance, big difference.
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post #68 of 406
I changed my mind and just pulled the trigger on the R9 Fury. For $310 I couldn't pass up the R9 Fury Nitro... It might have 4GB, but after looking at Doom Nightmare settings, it only becomes a problem at 4K. I have a measly 1080p monitor which I will be upgrading to a 21:9 monitor next year. The Fury will serve me well for quite a while, especially since I'm coming from an HD 6850...

So... Guess I'll be skipping Vega, and will be looking for another GPU in 3 years or so.
post #69 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

We'll bemoan the lack of an enthusiast-class competitor in the GPU market for the rest of the year but as @tajoh111
 astutely recognised, AMD is making difficult, practical choices here. It will be impossible to judge their strategy until after Zen's been released and we've seen what kind of impact it has on the consumer CPU market, and more importantly, the enterprise market with their server chips.

As with many around here I was waiting for Zen as a replacement to my 28nm GPU's. Once we saw what Polaris was going to be I knew that if I wanted to scratch the upgrade itch with anything for 2016 it would have to be a 1070 or a 1080. It's pits not having more compelling choices right now but in the long term if we want to have those kinds of choices we need AMD to be competitive. It would take years for another company to step in and reach even AMD's level of competitiveness, even if they managed to negotiate the licensing deals needed in any kind of buyout scenario, and were able to assemble crack teams near-instantaneously.
Their GPU department was in top form back in 5870 era. 5870 is brutally fast for its size & power consumption. But the top management decide to strip/cut the GPU R&D and put all of those resources to develop Zen. Since then their GPU has been under mediocre, it get even worst by the time Tonga come out.

Massive resources has been put onto Zen. I hope Zen turn out good & earn big bucks or AMD will have huge trouble.
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post #70 of 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpjoslee View Post

More like lower price for similar performance, big difference.

By Jan 2017 you expect something around GTX1080 would not be more then $550. This would mean Vega ~ $550 with faster performance.
Ishimura
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Silent Knight
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Ishimura
(21 items)
 
Silent Knight
(13 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K @ 4.6GHz ASRock Z77E-ITX eVGA GTX 1080 Ti Hybrid AVEXIR Blitz 1.1 16GB DDR3-2400MHz CL10 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
SanDisk Ultra II 960GB Toshiba X300 5TB Corsair H100i GTX eVGA Hybrid Water Cooler  
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
4x GentleTyphoon AP-15 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Philips Brilliance BDM4065UC 4K Razer BlackWidow Chroma  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
eVGA SuperNOVA 750 G3 Define Nano S Logitech G502 Proteus Core PECHAM Gaming Mouse Pad XX-Large 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Audioengine D1 DAC Mackie CR Series CR3 Audio-Technica ATH-M50 Sennheiser HD 598 
Audio
Sony XB950BT 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 4.2GHz ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AMD Radeon HD 7970 3GB @ 1200/1500 2x 4GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3-1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
OCZ Agility 3 60GB WD Caviar Green 1.5TB 2 x Seagate Barracuda 2TB XSPC Raystorm 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
EK-FC7970 XSPC RS360 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Corsair TX750 
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NZXT Switch 810  
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [AMD Investor Presentation - August 2016] - Vega still 6-10 months away