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2017 & AMD, what the future holds?!

post #1 of 64
Thread Starter 
I think AMD do really have a serious chance of getting back into the game and grab great market share and most importantly grab the hearts of the consumers whether gamers or professionals, enthusiasts or casuals.

2017 might finally be a great year full of innovation and fair competition which is great to us the consumer!


we consumers I think many of us has got so tired from the DEAD competition lately which led to nothing but a disappointing broadwell line of cpus, and a more so broadwell extreme which not only don't perform better enough (if any better!) than haswell-e but also more expensive!

and NVidia! the greed masters! GTX 1080 FE for 700$ seriously?! and then the titan x pascal for 1200$ for 20% more performance than the already expensive gtx 1080!

I don't blame them neither NVidia or intel, after all they wanna make money and please their shareholders, so if there is no completion why not raise price; more profit; more monies biggrin.gif:D


but if that price gouging for so little more performance led to anything it is that me and many like me are burned out to death!! I'm sick of paying more money every year for just a little more performance! (looking at you intel) or paying soo much many being forced because there is no other way of playing my favorite new games maxxed out at 60+ fps! (looking at you NVidia)




and because I'm sick and burned out I really wish that AMD will finally flip the table with VEGA and ZEN and get back to the game, I will really be glad to support them with my money infact I would be emotionally biased to put my monies with AMD this time around and I think many gamers might do the same after what intel and NVidia have been doing to us lately, tell u what even if I put my emotions aside even then intel and NVidia both would have to reduce their prices and/or release better products to compete with AMD then, its a win-win to us consumers then smile.gif


lets all hope AMD can finally do it in 2017 with ZEN and VEGA
thumbs up if you agree and spread the hashtag thumb.gif

#pray_for_vega
#pray_for_zen




disclaimer:
I'm not a fan boy of any brand, I'm a consumer who buys the best to satisfy my needs from whatever brand it is, if I'm a fanboy of anything it is that I'm a fanboy of consumer benefit which comes best only when there is fair competition, kindly note that blind fanboys are not welcome here.
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post #2 of 64

Yeah, upgrading has become a little bit too cost-prohibitive unless you want to sacrifice some performance and go with AMD (or if you just want to use your money to vote for AMD, so to speak).

 

I like to believe that NVIDIA and Intel are forced to have high prices due to their own costs of manufacturing, advertising and merchandising their products. Not only do they have costlier manufacturing, but it seems they have more aggressive and fancier advertising, and their products seem to have a better presentation as well. Unfortunately, it seems that AMD isn't making enough money and doesn't have enough either to compete equally with Intel or NVIDIA.

 

So, many of us are forced to stay in the past and always by the best stuff of yesteryear.

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post #3 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Yeah, upgrading has become a little bit too cost-prohibitive unless you want to sacrifice some performance and go with AMD (or if you just want to use your money to vote for AMD, so to speak).

I like to believe that NVIDIA and Intel are forced to have high prices due to their own costs of manufacturing, advertising and merchandising their products. Not only do they have costlier manufacturing, but it seems they have more aggressive and fancier advertising, and their products seem to have a better presentation as well. Unfortunately, it seems that AMD isn't making enough money and doesn't have enough either to compete equally with Intel or NVIDIA.

So, many of us are forced to stay in the past and always by the best stuff of yesteryear.



I don't totally agree with you bro on the higher cost thing! I think the statement "forced higher prices due to higher costs" is a almost a false statement NVidia and intel uses to excuse their higher prices policy, they don't have an excuse! they can sell a bit cheaper with a bit less profit margin per item and still maintain their targeted overall profits by selling more quantities rather than selling less quantities with larger profit margin which is they are doing now and I think they prefer it this way! why is that not good? because their will be less high end gpus and cpus sold so their will be less gamers with high end pc's so their will be less potential for game sales then! or at least less innovative high end games with nice graphics and complex mechanics!

look at is this way, if I'm a game developer who wants to make a great game with great graphics and large open world, that game is gonna cost me much money so I have to sell many copies of it to be profitable, hmmm so if I look at the market and find that the larger chunk of pc gamers are still stuck with their get 960 while my game might need a gtx 1070 or a gtx 1080 to run probably why would I create it?! I wouldn't as I know I will lose money as no body is gonna buy it but the rich top 5% of gamers who owns this kind of expensive high end gpu's, so I will have to either dump down my game or don't do it even, but what if those high end gpus where cheaper and more and more gamers could have afforded them, then I can make my game and rest assured their are many potential buyers for my game with powerful enough PC's to buy my game, and then another game developer comes in to compete with my game with a better/more innovative game and another and another and here goes . . . better games for every one thumb.gif <<< this is just an example of what cheaper performance would be of benefit to us all

hence: remember how ps3 and xbox 360 really hurt the innovation and development of better games by the end of their life cycle! (witcher 3 developers said it literally on why they didn't do witcher 3 for ps3/xbox 360 and waited for ps4/xbox one, because they would have to dump it down a lot then!) our pc's was able to push more and run better graphics games with larger worlds and more complex mechanics but we was stuck with dumped down games as developers wanted to be sure their games runs on ps3/xbox 360 as well as pc's, think of it this way and u will get my point, higher pc parts prices benefits no one but the greedy seller and specially hurts us the gamers and the game developers and the wholes pc gaming market in the long run!

and speaking of consoles lets look at the other side of the issue, we all know that pc's is the better platform for gaming (better graphics, better and cheaper games, more games . . . and the list goes) but given the current prohibitive gaming pc prices many will make it easy for themselves and just buy a console! I even think that's specially true this year (2016) in which I consider the worst year ever for the enthusiast pc gamers due to reasons we all know will be the year that many pc gamers might seriously consider moving to consoles specially with both ps4 neo and xbox scorpio incoming! this is really BAD for the pc gaming market and its not gonna be of benefit to both intel and SPICALLY NVidia as a large chunk of their profits comes from selling gaming gpu's!

so in conclusion this is my word to intel and NVidia: sell cheaper performance >> sell more >> more pc gamers >> more and better games >> pc gaming market thrives <<<<< and then we all benefit in the long run whether a gamer, game developer and the hardware manufacturer thumb.gif


ok if that's not enough reason here is another reason, lets have a look at the high end smart phones market in which I think is heathy atm due to fair competition (apple, Samsung, HTC, sony, LG . . . .)
each year we get significantly phones and phone prices never goes up! (galaxy s7> galaxy s6 > galaxy s5 > galaxy s4 > . . . .) << good for consumer thumb.gif
phones too costs a lot to produce, phones manufacturers too spend crazy on marketing and advertisement (hence: if it was for me Id rather a company spends more on a better product rather than on better advertisement)
compare the advertisements costs between NVidia/intel vs. phone manufacturers and its just a fraction, most of NVidia and intel marketing and advertising are web-based which doesn't cost that much compared to phone manufacturers TV ads, movie inclusions, conferences and shows, newspapers and magazines! for gods sake Samsung alone spends a fortune on their marketing campaigns and imho they don't need to advertise that hard as their phones are already known to be good ones!

and phones don't cost little! phones too cost money to make, better screens, better batteries, better cameras, better cores, higher quality bodies . . . . and moreover they are a very complex piece of tech to make as you have to be sure that every different part of your phone works perfectly with the other while the one certain purpose of a gaming gpu is gaming!


no bro, intel and NVidia don't have an excuse for higher prices! they both are turning into monsters hurting every body in the pc gaming market but themselves even hurting themselves in the long run if they keep on their higher pricing policy per year intact, maybe they don't know it yet but they will in time, when most gamers turn to ps4 neo and xbox scorpio when they come later this year as they find that their Maxwell/Kepler parts are obsolete and cant maintain 60 fps on the new holiday season games while both ps4 neo and xbox scorpio might be able to and still cheaper than a pascal gpu (and yea that's one more thing against NVidia on how their older gpus gets obsolete faster than their AMD counterparts don't know why exactly but it does!)

for gods sake AMD get back to the game, I my self will be the first to vote with my wallet if zen was better than my haswell-e and vega was better than my gtx1080 and im sure many like me will do the same


#pray_for_vega
#pray_for_zen
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post #4 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by SsXxX View Post

they can sell a bit cheaper with a bit less profit margin per item and still maintain their targeted overall profits by selling more quantities rather than selling less quantities with larger profit margin

Sorry, but I really had to stop reading right there. There is simply no way for you to know that with the information that's publicly available. I'm also preeeetty sure they're got an experienced team of analysts with access to a LOT more data which can help them determine pricing for their new products.

Sure, they have optimised for maximum profit, but they're a business. That's what businesses do. Would they still make money at a lower price? Sure they would, but why should they deviate from what's optimal?
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post #5 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leyaena View Post

Sorry, but I really had to stop reading right there. There is simply no way for you to know that with the information that's publicly available. I'm also preeeetty sure they're got an experienced team of analysts with access to a LOT more data which can help them determine pricing for their new products.

Sure, they have optimised for maximum profit, but they're a business. That's what businesses do. Would they still make money at a lower price? Sure they would, but why should they deviate from what's optimal?

well, kindly continue reading and you will get my point bro smile.gif

and yes I know they have more information than I have and yes I know they are not a charity and they optimize their business for the best profits and to please their shareholders, but mind you my point is that their shareholders, financial analysts or mangers, investors are not gamers, they are just money makers! and they are not staying their for ever that's why they don't care about pc gaming in general neither its long term benefit and market health, business wise most investors, financial managers or analysts don't stay more than a couple of years on a company or business before moving to another field or company to get higher salaries/return on investment for the sake of their own personal benefit (which understandable) and to do this they will have to prove that they can bring in the profit and be efficient in money making, so they will milk whatever business/market that they are doing nevertheless will not care about that might affect the market negatively in the future! if this market fails they simply pull their money and invest in another field.

in which they are doing now! u think those investers/shareholders care about whether pc gaming thrives or not? no sure they don't . . . well for them if pc gaming dies they will go invest in console gaming and still make profits, profits is what they seek and that's it, again they are not gamers, they are money makers!


but for us pc gamers its different, we love pc gaming, we want it to continue and be cheap/accessible to every one for it to thrive, improve and bring in more innovations and impress us thumb.gif
let me ask u this, imagine pc gaming dies and you have to move on to console gaming! would u be happy to give up your beloved overclocked beast for a lesser console because pc's are too expensive and you cant afford it anymore or because developers are not seeing opportunity in creating great pc games because there less and less pc gamers due to higher prices and more and more consoles gamers?!
I myself wouldn't, I love my PC, I love its better graphics, I love its better performance, I love its better games, mod-able games and for many other reasons I love pc gaming and I really hope those faceless corporate monsters wont milk our beloved pc gaming and kills it to feed their infinite greed and big pockets!!! mad.gif


again I don't blame them, every one should be interested in their own personal benefits, but I'm just suggesting that everyone can suppress their greed and work for the greater good of all to all in the long run and still maintain good profits in the short run! I'm not a financial expert but I just gave an example, them the investors and financial analysts will sure find a way, they just have to suppress their greed and plan for long term benefit of the market as a whole and for all as well as their own interest instead of just selfishly and rigorously seeking max profits of now and not giving a dime about whether pc gaming markets stays or dies tomorrow!
Edited by SsXxX - 8/28/16 at 2:18am
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Fusion
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post #6 of 64
PC was always an expensive platform, it was even worse back in the day. Your GPU was already obsolete the moment you bought it. Now you can get 4+ years out of it, especially if it's AMD and has plenty of VRAM. As for developers being limited by "weak" hardware, no, they are just lazy and those who aren't, they are being forced by greedy publishers to release half-baked unoptimized junk. GTA V and MGSV proved that you don't need monster hardware to run a complex and good looking game.
Edited by The Robot - 8/28/16 at 11:53am
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post #7 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leyaena View Post

Sorry, but I really had to stop reading right there. There is simply no way for you to know that with the information that's publicly available. I'm also preeeetty sure they're got an experienced team of analysts with access to a LOT more data which can help them determine pricing for their new products.

Sure, they have optimised for maximum profit, but they're a business. That's what businesses do. Would they still make money at a lower price? Sure they would, but why should they deviate from what's optimal?


Don't need any experts to tell them that they can price a lot higher than AMD cause they have no competition in that market segment.
post #8 of 64
AMD can't compete with NV atm. It took HBM to make Fury cards possible, and even then it hardly competed against 980ti. Situation is still the same. But I don't mind. I won't pay big money for a GPU, that's for sure, so going AMD is fine for me. Sure, it runs hotter than NV counterparts, but it's cheaper, FreeSync monitors are quite cheaper too, so it's a win-win for me. There are also DX12 games that put performance per watt very close to NV.

About Zen, I doubt it's first iteration will be able to beat Intel, but if priced correctly I'll get it. I refuse to "upgrade" to a 4c/8t CPU after 8 freaking years and there is no way I'm paying Intel for their extreme platform which features I will never ever use.

So rly looking forward to 2017, Zen and Vega.
post #9 of 64
100 % correct. It is all about profit "margins". The goal is to sell for as high a price as possible. Not to flood the market with lower priced products.
post #10 of 64
I'm looking forward to see what Zen can do, for sure!
#pray_for_zen

As for Vega, my expectations are on the low side at this point, sadly.
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