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2017 & AMD, what the future holds?! - Page 4

post #31 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyImperial View Post

Dude, we know. He comes around in ever damn thread to say "Zen won't compete, I bought Intel". I get it, you don't have to spam ever Zen thread hating on it.

I've read what you posted like, 100 times since Zen was announced. I KNOW HOW THE SILICON WAR WORKS. I KNOW KABY LAKE IS GOING TO BE FASTER (it better be or Intel is going to get some serious eyebrow raises at *** is going on over there). And you're right, in the sense that this is AMD's last real chance to be competitive. This is the first time in a long time that they'll be on an architecture the same size as the competition, and with a focus on competition.

It kinda sounds like you're okay with AMD just going away. I'm not. The $40 price drop on the 6700k is a perfect example of why I'm not ready.

You 're wasting your time. It's how it's always been and will be...

Before Zen:

"AMD sucks! Vishera is so old, my God, so old, AMD is so behind!"

After Zen".

"AMD sucks! Zen is still behind Intel, my God, still behind".


Translated: "I want a double miracle from Jim Keller, to surpass Intel in one jump with a fraction of Intel's R&D and so i will buy Intel to further increase the R&D advantage".


If one wants miracles, Hollywood is a better place to search. In the meatime, AMD will do what has always done. Go for bang for buck, survive to fight another day.
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post #32 of 64
* AMD is behind Intel because Intel has had more funding for their R&D / products.

AMD seems to be now establishing itself for the long term, making investments in new engineers, products, and new markets to sell to etc.

This whole process is a 10 year deal possibly worth hundreds of millions from various investors willing to lend Cheap, but profit huge.

Why wouldn't you invest in AMD now? Because your not sure how their financial investment is structured / is it based soley on profits? (making new products more difficult during slow periods of growth) Possibly not, they get the loans they need, get the engineers, make the products, make them affordable, make them excell from the competition, then in 10 years as an investor you could see AMD finally make consistent returns etc. * It's an ongoing process and sticking with it in the long term requires capital as well as an organization willing to invest in the right product direction. Basically they have to stop depending on profits to just get by, and attracts the right lenders that see them moving into a corporate structure that has better room to invest in new and better products without the need for capital from earnings. This will help get the ball rolling in the long term IMO.
post #33 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickRossBigBoss View Post

Purchased my fx 8320 around ivy bridge era and at that time I didn't even flinch, it was AMD all the way. Then Intel rolled out haswell, devils canyon, broadwell, and eventually skylake. Am I a fan boy because benchmarks showed the 4770k 20 fps ahead of my fx 8320 and I still held onto my AM3 platform? Or am I a fanboy because I learned that I should get the best bang for my buck


One question. Why do you post in these threads? Seriously. Your post of preferring Intel over AMD has nothing to do with the thread. Nobody cares about your preference save yourself. It is just thread crapping and makes you look like a 14 year old. Which I assume you aren't. Or are you?
post #34 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

You know what though, I'm unsubscribed now because I don't really want to be a part of this bash-fest where everyone is assuming the only reason the prices are higher is because of greed. I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt, and so I can't be in this thread anymore.


If its Intel you are speaking of if it isn't about greed what is it about? Maybe arrogance? They weren't satisfied just dominating the markets they compete in. They abused their market leverage in a big way and got in some very hot water from the federal government. As a result of this they paid some extremely hefty fines.
post #35 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjames61 View Post

If its Intel you are speaking of if it isn't about greed what is it about? Maybe arrogance? They weren't satisfied just dominating the markets they compete in. They abused their market leverage in a big way and got in some very hot water from the federal government. As a result of this they paid some extremely hefty fines.

I'll just say yeah, they got into some hot water, paid some fines..... And I can promise they knew it would happen when they did it. In fact we know that's happened more than once and it's still going on even today, Intel will just pay the fines and move on with whatever since these fines vs the potential profits to be made they'll just continue on with it.

Gotta keep the shareholders happy you know.

No I don't agree with it and frankly AMD hasn't exactly been a saint either at times, corporations are in the business to make money and that's the long and the short of it. It's just how big business works guys, dog-eat-dog and all that with such to be expected since it is what it is. redface.gif

I'll say I'm not expecting Zen to catch up with what Intel will have at the time the chip is released, getting closer I do expect but not to pull up even with them - That's is an extreme expectation ATM if you believe that but to clearly close the gap, that's doable.

I've noticed with Intel's recent releases there hasn't been much difference between these models esp from an OC'ers point of view. The MHz ceiling hasn't gone up, in fact looks like it's come down and I believe it's more of an efficiency-thing they're going for here. The current architecture chips are based on is beginning to run out of room to improve anyway - I believe with Kaby Lake we'll see an improved RAM controller over Skylake for better speeds and maybe a small bump in turbo speeds too - That's really about it.

Since AMD isn't as far along they have an opportunity to do something for making a good impression and don't need to waste it.
The market niche for each maker right now is clearly defined and AMD has a chance to shine but they will have to make something happen or it could be really bad - Personally I'm hoping they pull it off and get back into the game.

However...... Do remember that AMD is into more than just desktop CPUs, where the money trail leads they will follow and for good reason but we can hope right?
Yes we can and I do. thumb.gif
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post #36 of 64
Lets say AMD can pull this Zen 8 core off.
Look at this. This is for example.


Now this Zen 8 core is about 11% behind intel 4790K at stock speed. Zen is clock at 2.8ghz/3.2ghz and i7 4790k is clocked at 4.0ghz/4.4ghz. Now overclock it to 4.0ghz and then you go. It will be has good or better than Intel i7 4790k and Zen should be cheaper then the i7.


Here is another example of Zen.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10585/unpacking-amds-zen-benchmark-is-zen-actually-2-faster-than-broadwell


EDIT
Remember AMD has the only CPU the runs with DDR5 for years now and it is call PS4 and Xbox one. AMD can skip DDR4 and go straight to DDR5 any time they want too.
Edited by dixson01974 - 8/31/16 at 10:50pm
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post #37 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by dixson01974 View Post

Lets say AMD can pull this Zen 8 core off.
Look at this. This is for example.


Now this Zen 8 core is about 11% behind intel 4790K at stock speed. Zen is clock at 2.8ghz/3.2ghz and i7 4790k is clocked at 4.0ghz/4.4ghz. Now overclock it to 4.0ghz and then you go. It will be has good or better than Intel i7 4790k and Zen should be cheaper then the i7.


Here is another example of Zen.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10585/unpacking-amds-zen-benchmark-is-zen-actually-2-faster-than-broadwell


EDIT
Remember AMD has the only CPU the runs with DDR5 for years now and it is call PS4 and Xbox one. AMD can skip DDR4 and go straight to DDR5 any time they want too.

Ehh, those consoles are using GDDR5, and it's an APU. Nothing amazing about that.. GPU's have been using GDDR5 for years before PS4 and Xbox One.

I hope Zen will be a succes (and AMD still price it somewhat low), but tbh AotS is a terrible CPU benchmark and does not tell much. It's like best case scenario. Most games do not use multiple threads very well, but AotS does. If single thread performance is on par with Haswell/Skylake Zen will be a succes.
Edited by Lass3 - 8/31/16 at 11:10pm
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post #38 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lass3 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dixson01974 View Post

Lets say AMD can pull this Zen 8 core off.
Look at this. This is for example.


Now this Zen 8 core is about 11% behind intel 4790K at stock speed. Zen is clock at 2.8ghz/3.2ghz and i7 4790k is clocked at 4.0ghz/4.4ghz. Now overclock it to 4.0ghz and then you go. It will be has good or better than Intel i7 4790k and Zen should be cheaper then the i7.


Here is another example of Zen.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10585/unpacking-amds-zen-benchmark-is-zen-actually-2-faster-than-broadwell


EDIT
Remember AMD has the only CPU the runs with DDR5 for years now and it is call PS4 and Xbox one. AMD can skip DDR4 and go straight to DDR5 any time they want too.

Ehh, those consoles are using GDDR5, and it's an APU. Nothing amazing about that.. GPU's have been using GDDR5 for years before PS4 and Xbox One.

I hope Zen will be a succes (and AMD still price it somewhat low), but tbh AotS is a terrible CPU benchmark and does not tell much. It's like best case scenario. Most games do not use multiple threads very well.
Like I said this is an example if AMD can pull it off. And for the consoles AMD has DDR5 controllers, so they can do DDR5 base CPU rig for PCs.
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post #39 of 64
The Apus have gddr5 controllers and ddr3. But that doesn't mean much because their Raven ridge will have hbm and still be outperformed by a gtx 1060
post #40 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by dixson01974 View Post

Like I said this is an example if AMD can pull it off. And for the consoles AMD has DDR5 controllers, so they can do DDR5 base CPU rig for PCs.

Pull what off? They are using GDDR5, not "DDR5", which does not exist.

GDDR5 have high bandwidth, but also higher latency than DDR3. It would be worse for SYSTEM RAM.
Edited by Lass3 - 9/1/16 at 12:28am
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