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Do 200mm fans ever really work well as intake fans? - Page 5

post #41 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

@8051, I imagine Doyll is talking about consumer PC fans, where manufacturer specifications rarely line up with measured performance. Obviously industrial fans built for enterprise use have higher standards for accuracy, but if you take most of the fans tested in the images above and compare measured CFM to specifications you'd find some significant difference.

That said, anyone could've clarified this long ago. Why no one bothered to earlier is sort of a pathological problem this website has with inverse trolling.

I tried. It was ignored in favor of being pointlessly argumentative, so I didn't bother going further.
post #42 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

@8051, I imagine Doyll is talking about consumer PC fans, where manufacturer specifications rarely line up with measured performance. Obviously industrial fans built for enterprise use have higher standards for accuracy, but if you take most of the fans tested in the images above and compare measured CFM to specifications you'd find some significant difference.

That said, anyone could've clarified this long ago. Why no one bothered to earlier is sort of a pathological problem this website has with inverse trolling.

It was already tried...
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post #43 of 67
With all respect, no one clarified that consumer PC fan specifications are inaccurate in any clear articulation, merely that they exist (ciarlatano's post) and that they have been measured by an independent reviewer (Doyll's).

I mean no offense, but there's a sort of insiders impatience in these forums where we say things like "obviously" rather than offer a simple explanation, or , instead, a series of maxims that don't offer analogy with which to give those maxims context. It is often a discussion amongst us rather than for others, offering a conversation that lends itself well to the feeling of outsiders trolling, resulting in escalation and fits, like above, and particularly with people who don't speak English as a first language..

Heck, a certain fan expert here flagged a few of my posts a few months ago merely for observing as much, even while I was agreeing with him, and as if we hadn't engaged each other dozens of times before! tongue.gif

Edit: apologies for typos, on mobile
Edited by claes - 10/3/16 at 4:12pm
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post #44 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

Heck, a certain fan expert here flagged a few of my posts a few months ago merely for observing as much, even while I was agreeing with him, and as if we hadn't engaged each other dozens of times before! tongue.gif

Edit: apologies for typos, on mobile

And you will be flagged again. We can only forgive mobile typos if they are amusing. That's the rule. I'm not making it up. Ok, I am, but that's not the point. The point is how/why are you mounting a 200mm fan on your mobile device?! biggrin.giftongue.gif
post #45 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroCat View Post

And you will be flagged again. We can only forgive mobile typos if they are amusing. That's the rule. I'm not making it up. Ok, I am, but that's not the point. The point is how/why are you mounting a 200mm fan on your mobile device?! biggrin.giftongue.gif

Is the only effective way to overclock the note 7 without it exploding obviously
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post #46 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoa View Post

Is the only effective way to overclock the note 7 without it exploding obviously

Good point. But, a pair of industrial-hardened kevlar 140mm fans in push pull is the safer choice for a Note 7 OC. Us airheads expect our mobile devices to explode subtly. And quietly.
post #47 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

That said, anyone could've clarified this long ago. Why no one bothered to earlier is sort of a pathological problem this website has with inverse trolling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

With all respect, no one clarified that consumer PC fan specifications are inaccurate in any clear articulation, *snip*
It would appear you have skimmed, but not read what 8051 has been told.
My first post to 8051l does not say commercial vs consumer, but does explain how that specification are free airflow and stopped airflow, not functional use airflow ratings for our uses; post #29
Quote:
Fan specificatons are rather meaningless.
Functional airflow is the amount of air a fan can move against resistance.
Fan specifications:
Static pressure rating = the pressure level a fan reaches when air stops moving (resistance stops airflow).
Airflow rating = amount of air fan moves in free airflow (like a ceiling fan does .. no resistance at all).

ciarlatano in post #31
Quote:
I would imagine that @doyll is very obviously referring to the open air specs with no regulated testing procedures that get printed on the side of most mainstream fan boxes. And comparing a 38mm Delta/SanAce industrial to a mainstream "quiet series"? Come on, let's not get ridiculous here..

Graphs of how specifications do not show fan performance and explaining what consumer specifications are Post #32:
Quote:
Here are noise referenced to RPM, airflow referenced to RPM and noise referenced to airflow. Notice that Silverstone SST-FM121 is quiet at idle while makeing most noise at RPM of any. It flows among the best in the RPM to airflow, only being consistently bested by ML120 and NF-F12-IPPC 3000rpm at full speed. But when we look at noise level to airflow data FM121 is tied for best at idle, but becomes progressively louder until it is loudest of all at it's full speed.

Fan specifications:
Static pressure rating = the pressure level a fan reaches when air stops moving (resistance stops airflow).
Airflow rating = amount of air fan moves in free airflow (like a ceiling fan does .. no resistance at all).

As you have been told it was clarified repeatedly:
Post #37
Quote:
I tried to show you how consumer fan performance varies dramatically from their specifications.

Edited by doyll - 10/4/16 at 12:51am
post #48 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroCat View Post

And you will be flagged again. We can only forgive mobile typos if they are amusing. That's the rule. I'm not making it up. Ok, I am, but that's not the point. The point is how/why are you mounting a 200mm fan on your mobile device?! biggrin.giftongue.gif
I modded my ipad, oc'd the a8 to 2.0ghz and added 128gb ram and a giant heatsink as well as a 12W LED strip around the edge. The 200mm fan helps it float above the ground so when I'm riding my hoverboard I'm basically from the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

It would appear you have skimmed, but not read what 8051 has been told.
lol, a little late but always on time! wink.gif

It would appear that you do not understand what "clearly articulated" means... redface.gif
Quote:
My first post to 8051l does not say commercial vs consumer, but does explain how that specification are free airflow and stopped airflow, not functional use airflow ratings for our uses; post #29
ciarlatano in post #31
Graphs of how specifications do not show fan performance and explaining what consumer specifications are Post #32:
Great, so you guys mention fan testing methods without making a direct/implicit comparison to either proper/industrial fan testing methods (which is what 8051 is talking about) or without directly/implicitly comparing them to those reviews from thermalbench. I hope you understand why I do not think that counts as "clearly articulated."
Quote:
As you have been told it was clarified repeatedly:
Post #37
"Repeatedly" suggests it was clarified multiple times, when in fact it was only clarified once, and, again, in poor context.

You say "consumer fan performance varies dramatically from their specifications," 8051 says "so, industrial fan specifications don't." There is no competition in this argument (you are both correct about different things), or even any direct comparison to be made (no one implicitly compared consumer and industrial fan testing methods to illustrate the difference in accuracy). Sure, a few posts before various users referred to this difference, but, again, without directly/implicitly doing so, ie, not "clearly articulated."

As you know, this is a web forum where people enter conversations without reading entire threads, come to the forum with very differing levels of knowledge, including English, and find themselves in the middle of sometimes complicated conversations about fluid dynamics. All I'm saying is that you could edit better, as is clearly evidenced by the dozens of threads where people misread you that turn into trite arguments about nothing (see above). Fuses become short, people get angry, and we all lose out on a potentially great conversation comparing consumer fan testing methods to industrial fan testing methods out of some childish offense we have taken.

Again, I don't think I could've said it any better:
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

@8051, I imagine Doyll is talking about consumer PC fans, where manufacturer specifications rarely line up with measured performance. Obviously industrial fans built for enterprise use have higher standards for accuracy, but if you take most of the fans tested in the images above and compare measured CFM to specifications you'd find some significant difference.

See what I mean? I managed to pull together those hundreds of words and images that came from across multiple posts in to two coherent sentences that directly respond to the argument at hand. To be certain, I really could've been more clear, "CFM measured by thermalbench as shown in those graphs above when compared to the fan manufacturer's specifications," or similar.

I mean, really, at this point the argument has affirmed itself:
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

With all respect, no one clarified that consumer PC fan specifications are inaccurate in any clear articulation, merely that they exist (ciarlatano's post) and that they have been measured by an independent reviewer (Doyll's).

I mean no offense, but there's a sort of insiders impatience in these forums where we say things like "obviously" rather than offer a simple explanation, or , instead, a series of maxims that don't offer analogy with which to give those maxims context. It is often a discussion amongst us rather than for others, offering a conversation that lends itself well to the feeling of outsiders trolling, resulting in escalation and fits, like above, and particularly with people who don't speak English as a first language..

Edited by claes - 10/4/16 at 12:20pm
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post #49 of 67
Typical Doyll - defensive about everything, as if anything were at stake in conceding something you've already conceded, and unwilling to take any responsibility for simple oversights in communication. You know a lot about fans, but your editing needs a lot of work (I do not even get the joke you are making in this last post!).

Of course I understood - that is the crux of my argument (insiders talking to one another rather than for an audience)! rolleyes.gif

I did in fact clarify in plain language, see post #40. You'll notice 8051 left the conversation at that point, which I assume means that my post was clarification enough.

So, yes, I pointed out that the information I offered could have been clarified long ago had this insider's conversation had been edited for an audience, thus avoiding a dumb argument and a series of angry posts, which has been my argument exactly. Your response? "No, I make perfect sense, obviously!"

Sorry, but you got into an argument due to an inability to clearly articulate your argument. You can be righteous about it, but one only has to scroll up to confirm that patience and a little clarification would've saved you several hundreds of words and a few frustrated users/posts.

Looking forward to another infraction,
Claes
Edited by claes - 10/4/16 at 1:40pm
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