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[TH]Intel Kaby Lake: 14nm+, Higher Clocks, New Media Engine - Page 3

post #21 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

iGP is staying and may even get bigger, why? Because you people don't get that these mainstream chips are made for laptops and your glorious 6700K chips(and mine) are just 6700HQs that failed at low power binning.

Some of these chips are near $400. If Intel considers these mainstream prices they've been the big dog for too long. Normal ppl dont buy $400 chips.
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post #22 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

iGP is staying and may even get bigger, why? Because you people don't get that these mainstream chips are made for laptops and your glorious 6700K chips(and mine) are just 6700HQs that failed at low power binning.

Are you sure it's not the opposite since the dies further from the center are cut down or lower power. It uses more voltage and runs at lower clocks ( base clock and igpu clocks ) than the T series desktop chips.

http://ark.intel.com/products/88200/Intel-Core-i7-6700T-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz

http://ark.intel.com/products/88967/Intel-Core-i7-6700HQ-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz

The latter cannot be upgraded to 7th/8th generation
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post #23 of 75

Funny that Tom's didn't mention about M$ not providing driver support for Win 7/8 for these new chips.  So its 10 or Linux.

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3112663/software/microsoft-made-em-do-it-the-latest-kaby-lake-zen-chips-will-support-only-windows-10.html

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post #24 of 75
Tri-gate 14 nm or 14 nm plus hopefully does what the jump from 32 to 22nm + tri-gate did as that would be really nice for mobile parts. The 4K video playback numbers look real good but I know that is just because they build in some dedicated blocks 0,5W while playing back 4K content (SoC consumption) is still very nice. It's at the point that the display becomes more of a consumer than the SoC.
For all other tasks except idle the SoC will be the bigger drain as always.
post #25 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Yes, it's called Kaby Lake-E and will be available on X190 and LGA-2066 or whatever is planned. wink.gif There are a few chips with the GPU lasered off but none are unlocked. That is something I like about AMD, that they sell unlocked Athlons - APUs with the GPU disabled - for very good prices compared to the APU.

As for making a dedicated consumer die? Nah, won't happen. Too many PCs ship with integrated graphics (and in fact for every GPU AMD and Nvidia combined sell, Intel sells two) and really, having dedicated iGPU-less dies would just make it slightly more complicated, both for people building their own systems and for OEMs buying the things. The money saved wouldn't be worth the additional complexity in the supply and demand. And anyway, there are a few GPU-accelerated tasks that can be done. QuickSync is used... Ya know, occasionally. But you need a GPU to do it in the first place.
I dont think Kaby lake will be on X170/190/whichever the name is .it is not a new architecture and really enthusiast/WS processors dont get updated as frequently as mainstream, probably because there is no need to release same architecture on CPUs twice and there is no need to update IGP or (wait for release higher clocked cpus)
Edited by PontiacGTX - 8/30/16 at 2:48pm
  
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post #26 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

On the other hand, I would also prefer for no iGPU versions to save on heat and die size.

The extra die size doesn't hurt the consumer and the iGPU produces negligible heat when idle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

they already have an SKU without an IGP, what i'm asking is why they aren't releasing them as a mainstream product.

The IGP is still there, just disabled. Intel doesn't make mainsteam dies without IGPs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

I have a feeling that intel did the math regarding pros and cons to make different manufacturing lines to CPUs with and without iGPU and they decided it is cheaper and more profitable for them to leave the iGPU on.

It's almost certainly more expensive to build yet another die flavor for such a small market. The overwhelming majority of mainstream parts sold are going into systems where the IGP will be used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepiashimmer View Post

50% die space for iGPU!!! Which almost no one uses!

Systems with descrete GPUs are a minority. Non-casual gamers are an even smaller minority. Those who know or care about the die area of their Intel parts are a tiny fraction of a small minority of a minority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepiashimmer View Post

They should dedicate 70% die space for CPU and the rest 30% for iGPU.

They used to, but market demands are driving iGPU power more than CPU power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Well 860K was a lot cheaper then 7850K because it no GPU. Intel can do the same thing.

The 860K is poor analogy for a few reasons. Firstly, AMD already had GPU-less dies available, while Intel does not.

Secondly, Intel's margins are enormous relative to AMD's. For every dollar Intel spends on wafer area, they can charge their consumers five. Leaving off the IGP would save Intel 40-50% per die...on a measly ~5% of dies they sell. It would cost Intel more to tool up for manufacturing another die flavor than it would to just throw away 50% of the transistors on the hand full of CPUs sold with disabled IGPs.

Intel could make small die parts with no IGP, but they would not move enough units using that die flavor to make it worthwhile, so they won't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepiashimmer View Post

As a consumer, you shouldn't be explaining Intel's decisions and defending them.

As a consumer I'd love to get the product I want at the price I want, but I'd have to be a fool to think it would be profitable for Intel to tailor their product to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keikei View Post

Some of these chips are near $400. If Intel considers these mainstream prices they've been the big dog for too long. Normal ppl dont buy $400 chips.

That was pretty much his point. That die that goes into a 6700K is the exact same design that goes into the lowest priced i5s and the cheaper mobile i7s.

It costs Intel maybe 50 bucks to make 6700K. They aren't going to spend hundreds of millions retooling production lines so they can spend 40 bucks per part (not including initial investment) that won't sell much better but have to be sold for less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfromcolo View Post

Funny that Tom's didn't mention about M$ not providing driver support for Win 7/8 for these new chips.  So its 10 or Linux.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3112663/software/microsoft-made-em-do-it-the-latest-kaby-lake-zen-chips-will-support-only-windows-10.html

MS can't make existent features of past OSes cease to function on new hardware, they can only refuse to support new ones, and Kaby Lake doesn't have a lot of innovations in this regard.
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post #27 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

The extra die size doesn't hurt the consumer and the iGPU produces negligible heat when idle.
the advantage of having an IGP as backup or support is good but giving a better use in games would be quite good, like the idea DX12 offers with mGPU, but really increasing price for a slighly improved IGP which doesnt make a noticeable different isnt worth the price difference
Quote:
The IGP is still there, just disabled. Intel doesn't make mainsteam dies without IGPs.
did the i5 2550k had IGP ?
Edited by PontiacGTX - 8/30/16 at 3:12pm
  
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post #28 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

the advantage of having an IGP as backup or support is good but giving a better use at the same with the dGPU/Video card in games would be quite good, like the idea DX12 offers with mGPU, but really increasing price for a slighly improved IGP which doesnt make a noticeable different isnt worth the price difference
did the i5 2550k had IGP ?
Yes, there was an IGP on-die, it just wasn't functional. Just like a lot of xeon chips on the mainstream socket.
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post #29 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

iGP is staying and may even get bigger, why? Because you people don't get that these mainstream chips are made for laptops and your glorious 6700K chips(and mine) are just 6700HQs that failed at low power binning.

you do realize that the desktop SKUs and laptop SKUs are two separate manufacturing lines right?
post #30 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

cant we have an SKU without that IGP? the dieshot itself shows that the IGP takes up nearly half of the die size.
even if they priced it just ~30% cheaper instead of half, we'd still benefit from the much lower price per unit.
furthermore Intel would gain more profit margin per die. (50% reduction in die size, 30% reduction in retail price, 40% more profit margin)
Not in mainstream, only in enthusiast they do that. And they can't be bothered to have a special die just for mainstream K series without iGPU as the die is the same as all the rest of the i5s and i7s which do need iGPU.
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