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Don't use DDU or Driver Sweeper or Driver Fusion unless you're trying to fix a problem. - Page 5  

post #41 of 81
Always used DDU when uninstalling old drivers. Always worked perfectly for me, no issues.

It's a part of my regular routine and has never caused me any issues, so I will continue to use it.
post #42 of 81
Thread Starter 

Sigh. All I'm saying is, it seems to me you guys think you need to use driver cleaners and you think you're benefiting from them, but what if you're just wasting your time? I'd say that you are wasting your time and you're NOT benefiting from them. It's just The Placebo Effect. You only think you're benefiting from them. You're making an assumption.

 

I think you guys are just afraid to upgrade in the way it's designed to be done. I think you're scared that you'll have problems if you do it that way. Prove me wrong. Try it. Just upgrade by downloading the installer and running it. If you have problems, then fine, it's my fault. If not, then maybe you'll see just as I did a long time ago that driver cleaners aren't necessary at all for simple upgrades. They are only for helping you get rid of a problematic driver.

 

Here, I have an idea:

 

Use a driver cleaner to help you cleanly downgrade to an older driver, and then reboot away from Safe Mode and run the installer for the newer version that you had (or the latest one). Don't uninstall first, don't use a driver cleaner, just run the installer. After you do this, tell me what happens. Tell me what you think. Prove to me that you need to use a driver cleaner of some kind. Prove to me that you would've been better off if you had used it.

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post #43 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Sigh. All I'm saying is, it seems to me you guys think you need to use driver cleaners and you think you're benefiting from them, but what if you're just wasting your time? I'd say that you are wasting your time and you're NOT benefiting from them. It's just The Placebo Effect. You only think you're benefiting from them. You're making an assumption.

I think you guys are just afraid to upgrade in the way it's designed to be done. I think you're scared that you'll have problems if you do it that way. Prove me wrong. Try it. Just upgrade by downloading the installer and running it. If you have problems, then fine, it's my fault. If not, then maybe you'll see just as I did a long time ago that driver cleaners aren't necessary at all for simple upgrades. They are only for helping you get rid of a problematic driver.

Here, I have an idea:

Use a driver cleaner to help you cleanly downgrade to an older driver, and then reboot away from Safe Mode and run the installer for the newer version that you had (or the latest one). Don't uninstall first, don't use a driver cleaner, just run the installer. After you do this, tell me what happens. Tell me what you think. Prove to me that you need to use a driver cleaner of some kind. Prove to me that you would've been better off if you had used it.

But... why do we need to prove anything? It's not really a big deal.

I mean, sure, I could probably just upgrade the driver package and it would work fine. But, I can also run DDU and then re-install drivers and that would work fine.

The whole reason I started using DDU was because once I had major issues with AMD drivers that were conflicting having done the default upgrade. Using DDU completely resolved it and thus, I have continued to use it with no further issues.

Why would I want to change the way I do things when they work perfectly now?
post #44 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98uk View Post


But... why do we need to prove anything? It's not really a big deal.

I mean, sure, I could probably just upgrade the driver package and it would work fine. But, I can also run DDU and then re-install drivers and that would work fine.

 

And how much time does that consume? It consumes more time, you're required to reboot, you have to reconfigure your control panel settings for the driver, and it's just more work. With the way it's meant to be done, all you have to do is perform the upgrade and go back to whatever you were doing, It takes like 20 seconds to do the entire upgrade and you don't get interrupted at all.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98uk View Post

The whole reason I started using DDU was because once I had major issues with AMD drivers that were conflicting having done the default upgrade. Using DDU completely resolved it and thus, I have continued to use it with no further issues.

Why would I want to change the way I do things when they work perfectly now?

 

What would happen if you were to perform your next upgrade by doing it the way it's designed to be done? That is, download the installer, run it, and then go back to what you were doing? What would happen if that simply upgraded your driver without any problems? I think you'd find just as I did that you'll no longer see a point in wasting your time using a driver cleaner when there's really no good reason to do it in the first place.

 

The only time you need to use a driver cleaner is when you need to get rid of a problematic driver. So think about it: if you upgrade to a driver that gives you problems, then that's when you use a driver cleaner. Using a driver cleaner does not prevent you from having problems with a new driver. You get problems with a new driver when that new driver is a problem for your system. That's when you use a driver cleaner so that you can go back to a driver that you know is good and then stay there until a newer driver is released. Then when one is released, you upgrade again to see if it's fine. Usually, the next driver released is fine. Why go through the whole process of using a driver cleaner when the simple upgrade is much easier? Again, if you get a bad driver, then use a driver cleaner to get rid of it.


Edited by TwoCables - 8/31/16 at 12:35am
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post #45 of 81
Agreed with this totally.

I've had the driver sweepers programs totally remove my USB drivers for my keyboard and mouse, numerous times. I don't think my motherboard even has a PS/2 port to plug in an old keyboard. I don't even really remember how I got it working again but it was a PITB.

I use AMD cards and for a long time I've just installed the new drivers over the old ones. The only time I even had to "remove" the drivers through the Catalyst Install Manager was when going from a really old version (14.xx) to the newest drivers. And to do that you go to Programs and Features, click on "remove" on the AMD drivers (AMD Install Manager) and then follow the prompts.

The only time I would use something like Driver Sweeper would be if I was going to install an Nvidia card, or go from an Nvidia card back to an AMD card.
post #46 of 81

How interesting. This is not the hill I'd have chosen.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

 

I think you guys are just afraid to upgrade in the way it's designed to be done. I think you're scared that you'll have problems if you do it that way. Prove me wrong. Try it. Just upgrade by downloading the installer and running it. If you have problems, then fine, it's my fault. If not, then maybe you'll see just as I did a long time ago that driver cleaners aren't necessary at all for simple upgrades. They are only for helping you get rid of a problematic driver.

 

FWIW, the last time that I didn't use DDU and just ran the driver install, Witcher 3 crashed non-stop after moments of play for about an hour. DDU'd the install, re-installed, and had nary an issue. I'm sure I'd save like five minutes annually if I forsook DDU but if we get in an almighty uproar on this site about people 'telling people what to do with their hard-earned money', I'd think that my five minutes is even less of a topic.


Edited by SuperZan - 8/31/16 at 12:41am
     
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post #47 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neurotix View Post

Agreed with this totally.

I've had the driver sweepers programs totally remove my USB drivers for my keyboard and mouse, numerous times. I don't think my motherboard even has a PS/2 port to plug in an old keyboard. I don't even really remember how I got it working again but it was a PITB.

I use AMD cards and for a long time I've just installed the new drivers over the old ones. The only time I even had to "remove" the drivers through the Catalyst Install Manager was when going from a really old version (14.xx) to the newest drivers. And to do that you go to Programs and Features, click on "remove" on the AMD drivers (AMD Install Manager) and then follow the prompts.

The only time I would use something like Driver Sweeper would be if I was going to install an Nvidia card, or go from an Nvidia card back to an AMD card.

 

Even then, using a driver cleaner is really for removing a problematic driver. Even going from red to green or green to red, a simple uninstall in the Programs and Features control panel should be more than enough.

 

Let's not misunderstand the upgrade process: you're not installing the new driver "over" the old one. It's just being replaced. The old one is removed and the new one is put in its place.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post
 

How interesting. This is not the hill I'd have chosen.

 

 

FWIW, the last time that I didn't use DDU and just ran the driver install, Witcher 3 crashed non-stop after moments of play for about an hour. DDU'd the install, re-installed, and had nary an issue. I'm sure I'd save like five minutes annually if I forsook DDU but if we get in an almighty uproar on this site about people 'telling people what to do with their hard-earned money', I'd think that my five minutes is even less of a topic.

 

Did you try restarting your computer first before going and using DDU? Just curious.

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post #48 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

No, you're not installing the new driver on top of the old one, you're replacing it. That's what the installer does during the upgrade; it replaces it.

I think this is the source of whole problem: everyone thinks the drivers would pile up into a big mess if all they ever did was upgrade from driver to driver to driver! heh No, the old driver is replaced with the new one. When you upgrade, the old driver is deleted.

You don't need to use DDU for GPU upgrades either.

I knew that. I just meant that I don't uninstall the old driver beforehand. Semantics really.

Nvidia to nvidia GPU upgrades, yes. I know that too. I was talking about hardware that I won't even bother upgrading or replacing like integrated graphics disabled in the BIOS and such.
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post #49 of 81
Thread Starter 

I apologize that this is coming off as harsh and whatnot, but I really am quite sick and tired of seeing all these people thinking that they absolutely have to use a driver cleaner for simple driver upgrades when I have proven to myself that they're not needed. Like I said, I've been doing simple upgrades for a very long time now with absolutely no problems. For a long time now, I've just downloaded the new driver, upgraded, and went on my way. I no longer have to be interrupted by rebooting into Safe Mode and then having the end result be that I have to reconfigure all of my settings. I just upgrade and then I'm done.

 

The only time I expect to have a problem is if the driver I downloaded is a problem for my system. If that happens, then I'll just use a driver cleaner to get rid of it (after I uninstall it first, of course), and then I'll install the driver I had before.

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post #50 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
 

Did you try restarting your computer first before going and using DDU? Just curious.

 

Aye, and tried a couple of additional troubleshooting steps as well (double-checking all settings, reconnecting HDMI cable, trying new HDMI cable, etc.). When I upgrade to the 372.70 driver today I'll do it without DDU. I'm not anticipating any issues but my issues with the Witcher 3 on my previous driver, and a couple of issues with Fiji cards earlier this year really had me vexed.

     
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AMD Ryzen 7 1700X @ 4.0 GHz 1.37v o/s  Biostar X370 GT7 Sapphire Radeon RX Vega 64 8GB HBM2 G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) @ 32... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Biostar M200-240 240GB m.2 SATA SSD (Win) Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD (Linux) SanDisk Ultra II 480GB SSD (Games) Seagate 2TB SSHD (Storage) 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
LG DVD RW Swiftech H220-X2 Swiftech Komodo RX-ECO Vega Water Block XSPC EX240 Rad 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
Gentle Typhoon 120mm x4 Ubuntu 17.10 w/ custom kernel Windows 10 Pro Pixio PX277 27" 1440p 144Hz DP-Adaptive Sync w... 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
JAR-OWL J1 Rainbow LED Mechanical SeaSonic X-Series 1050w Gold+ Corsair 760T Zowie FK1 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Razer Firefly Plantronics Rig 500e Gaming Headset Marantz Pro MPH-1 Monitoring Headphones S.M.S.L SD-793II Audio DAC + Headphone Amplifier 
Other
Xbox One Controller 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-4790k @ 4.6GHz Asrock Z97 Extreme6 EVGA GTX 1070 SC Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) @ 2133 10-10-10-... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Intel 530 Series 480GB SSD Seagate 2TB SSHD LG DVD RW Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 40" Vizio HDTV HP Generic EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650w 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Carbide 300R Logitech Generic HyperX Cloud 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-6300 @ 4.3GHz 1.35v Biostar TA970 v5.3 MSI HD 6950 2GB G.Skill Ripjaws Z 16GB (4x4GB) 1600 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Cryorig H5 Ultimate Corsair AF120 (White LED) x3 Corsair AF140 (White LED) x2 Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell S2440L Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 EVGA B2 850w Corsair 300R 
Mouse
SteelSeries Rival 300 
  hide details  
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen 7 1700X @ 4.0 GHz 1.37v o/s  Biostar X370 GT7 Sapphire Radeon RX Vega 64 8GB HBM2 G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) @ 32... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Biostar M200-240 240GB m.2 SATA SSD (Win) Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD (Linux) SanDisk Ultra II 480GB SSD (Games) Seagate 2TB SSHD (Storage) 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
LG DVD RW Swiftech H220-X2 Swiftech Komodo RX-ECO Vega Water Block XSPC EX240 Rad 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
Gentle Typhoon 120mm x4 Ubuntu 17.10 w/ custom kernel Windows 10 Pro Pixio PX277 27" 1440p 144Hz DP-Adaptive Sync w... 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
JAR-OWL J1 Rainbow LED Mechanical SeaSonic X-Series 1050w Gold+ Corsair 760T Zowie FK1 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Razer Firefly Plantronics Rig 500e Gaming Headset Marantz Pro MPH-1 Monitoring Headphones S.M.S.L SD-793II Audio DAC + Headphone Amplifier 
Other
Xbox One Controller 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-4790k @ 4.6GHz Asrock Z97 Extreme6 EVGA GTX 1070 SC Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) @ 2133 10-10-10-... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Intel 530 Series 480GB SSD Seagate 2TB SSHD LG DVD RW Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 40" Vizio HDTV HP Generic EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650w 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Carbide 300R Logitech Generic HyperX Cloud 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-6300 @ 4.3GHz 1.35v Biostar TA970 v5.3 MSI HD 6950 2GB G.Skill Ripjaws Z 16GB (4x4GB) 1600 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Cryorig H5 Ultimate Corsair AF120 (White LED) x3 Corsair AF140 (White LED) x2 Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell S2440L Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 EVGA B2 850w Corsair 300R 
Mouse
SteelSeries Rival 300 
  hide details  
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Overclock.net › Forums › Graphics Cards › Graphics Cards - General › Don't use DDU or Driver Sweeper or Driver Fusion unless you're trying to fix a problem.