Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Mice › Need clarification on low DPI vs high DPI.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Need clarification on low DPI vs high DPI.

post #1 of 128
Thread Starter 
I've seen some posts on here talking about this but wanted to get a more up to date look at this, as sensors may have changed, etc.
For background: Yesterday, Taimou (EnVyUs Overwatch player) demonstrated pixel skipping, showing the difference between 400DPI 10 ingame and 1600DPI 2.5 ingame. I've read some conflicting opinions on the subject, so, to double check:
Lower DPIs experience pixel skipping. Some argue this is a negative, as it lowers accuracy, while some claim higher DPI is sensitive to tiny movements you don't want picked up by the sensor, and pixel skipping adds to consistency. (If I got anything wrong so far please let me know).
What's the verdict on this? As a 400/10 player right now I'm not sure whether I'd rather have pixel skipping or "floatiness" and a mouse that is more sensitive to small movements.
post #2 of 128
I'd like to see that video of him demonstrating pixel skipping.
Obsidian
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K 4.5 @ 1.15v P8Z77-V PRO Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Crucial 16Gb 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro 128Gb WD Caviar Blue 500Gb Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
BenQ XL2411T Acer S220HQL CM Storm Quickfire Rapid EVGA Supernova G2 650W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Obsidian 550D Logitech G403 Wireless Artisan Zero XSoft Large Audinst HUD-MX2 
Audio
Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250 ohm 
  hide details  
Reply
Obsidian
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K 4.5 @ 1.15v P8Z77-V PRO Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Crucial 16Gb 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro 128Gb WD Caviar Blue 500Gb Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
BenQ XL2411T Acer S220HQL CM Storm Quickfire Rapid EVGA Supernova G2 650W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Obsidian 550D Logitech G403 Wireless Artisan Zero XSoft Large Audinst HUD-MX2 
Audio
Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250 ohm 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3 of 128
Generally it's preference as long as you're not using some insanely high CPI, 1600 should be fine. As far as I can understand from around here, as long as the CPI you're using will not negatively affect the sensor's performance (non-native CPIs, some sensors get higher smoothing after certain CPIs such as >= 2100 on the 3360 for example, some like the 3050 are also very jitter on anything above 500 CPI step) then it's fine to use it.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 4790K SABERTOOTH Z97 MARK 1 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 Corsair  
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Corsair  Seagate ST31500341AS MSI DH24ABS Stock 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 10 64 bit Samsung 2233RZ BenQ XL2411Z Filco Majestouch-2 (Cherry MX Black) 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G403 Razer Gigantus ROG Thunderbolt 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 4790K SABERTOOTH Z97 MARK 1 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 Corsair  
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Corsair  Seagate ST31500341AS MSI DH24ABS Stock 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 10 64 bit Samsung 2233RZ BenQ XL2411Z Filco Majestouch-2 (Cherry MX Black) 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G403 Razer Gigantus ROG Thunderbolt 
  hide details  
Reply
post #4 of 128
Its true op. You can check yourself in csgo or tf2 easily fov_cs_debug 1. Use something in between for start like 800dpi if its not rival 100. I use 1400dpi on 3360 and I cant say it makes a big difference, just a little bit, but placebo effect of smth wrong with aiming is strong at start.
post #5 of 128
Tried 15 sensitivity in OW with 400 CPI. It's harder to make a single movement that you can see due to sensitivity but it definitely looks the same as on my usual 8.33.

On 3.75 with 1600 CPI you do get more radians per 360, so technically you can make more minuscule movements than on 400. Never bothered with it though.
Edited by Melan - 8/30/16 at 9:53pm
Obsidian
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K 4.5 @ 1.15v P8Z77-V PRO Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Crucial 16Gb 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro 128Gb WD Caviar Blue 500Gb Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
BenQ XL2411T Acer S220HQL CM Storm Quickfire Rapid EVGA Supernova G2 650W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Obsidian 550D Logitech G403 Wireless Artisan Zero XSoft Large Audinst HUD-MX2 
Audio
Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250 ohm 
  hide details  
Reply
Obsidian
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K 4.5 @ 1.15v P8Z77-V PRO Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Crucial 16Gb 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro 128Gb WD Caviar Blue 500Gb Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
BenQ XL2411T Acer S220HQL CM Storm Quickfire Rapid EVGA Supernova G2 650W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Obsidian 550D Logitech G403 Wireless Artisan Zero XSoft Large Audinst HUD-MX2 
Audio
Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250 ohm 
  hide details  
Reply
post #6 of 128
Can only talk about sensitivity ranges of games where the m_yaw and m_pitch are 0.022 (CS, Quake, etc)

If we are talking about mice which perform equally on all steps...

For example if you want to achieve a cm/360 where you would use like 400 cpi and a sens higher than 4. It would make way more sense to double the cpi and divide the sensitivity, to be more precise on small aim corrections.

I would just use the cpi you use on desktop tbh, if its not >=2000. seriously lets say you use 1600 on desktop for example you dont really need to change to 400 cpi ever time you game.

But i also remember @Ino. saying that according to one of the engineers from logitech (iirc) you should use the lowest possible step without having negative effects like "pixel skipping" (the example: using 400 cpi sens 5 in CS)

there were some good threads about this topic here on ocn explaining it better.

or maybe @Ino. can link us his post about what Francois Moirer or CPate (?) said.
Edited by turnschuh - 8/30/16 at 10:34pm
post #7 of 128
it is not pixel skipping.
in a 3d first person environment, you rotate/roll a certain angle for each (pointer) count the game receives.

the sensitivity scale in games is just a multiplier of the set yaw and pitch values, meaning that increasing the sensitivity just increases this angle that you roll/rotate.
meaning.. go high enough with the sensitivity scale and the angle becomes so large that it feels like you are "skipping".

i might explain poorly because i lack a vocabulary and i am stupid, but still i don't understand why so many people do not understand the way looking around in 3D games work. it is actually extremely simple.
and cpi has nothing to do with it; there's nothing wrong with using 400cpi unless it forces you to set the sensitivity so high that you lose too much accuracy.

just find your own sweet spot.
Edited by Bucake - 8/30/16 at 10:25pm
post #8 of 128
DPI and sensitivity affect 2 different things.

DPI is just the dot per inch measurement. What it means for computer mice is that the mouse (depending on sensor) can react to finer motions and detect them. That is all it does in its basic form.

However if we talk less then perfect sensors we also have to deal with none native DPI and other aspects that might even make the choice of using a higher dpi a bad choice.

Many low sens players started out with mice that only worked well at 400-800 dpi and few have had a reason to change that even as newer and better(hardware+sensor) mice have come out.

Many high sense players grew up with limited space on their desks so they got used to a higher sens due to the constraints of their available real estate. That they could use for their mousepad and mouse.

The 3366 sensor does not suffer from the limits of older mouse sensors. so in theory you should be able to play at its max DPI.

For example for me who use a cm / 360 of 26 cm across all games where i can set my correct sens the difference would be this:

Using CSGO as an example

at 800 DPI

1.99825 sens for 26cm /360

at 120000 DPI

0.133217 sens for 26 cm /360

same effect just a much much higher speed outside of the game on the desktop.

Also teamliquid has a good explanation here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tech-support/333648-an-overview-of-mouse-technology

Be sure to read CPI and Sensitivity in an Inverted World Transform Matrix

to understand how CPI works in a 3D world like in an FPS


sensitivity works like this:

http://www.mouse-sensitivity.com/forum/topic/5-how-sensitivity-works/

Hope it helped.
Edited by ghostshade - 8/30/16 at 10:28pm
post #9 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostshade View Post

The 3366 sensor does not suffer from the limits of older mouse sensors. so in theory you should be able to play at its max DPI.

Some sensors (3360, which is the non-exclusive 3366) suffer from higher smoothing levels at higher DPIs, I believe the 3366 has 2 frames across all CPI levels though.
qsxcv, uaok, or wareya will have to confirm this.

There's also angular granularity, where you can only turn a specific amount per game regardless of sensitivity, so I think even below 1 sensitivity won't make you turn less than that (0.022 in CS:GO for example) but trism knows more about that than I do.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 4790K SABERTOOTH Z97 MARK 1 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 Corsair  
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Corsair  Seagate ST31500341AS MSI DH24ABS Stock 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 10 64 bit Samsung 2233RZ BenQ XL2411Z Filco Majestouch-2 (Cherry MX Black) 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G403 Razer Gigantus ROG Thunderbolt 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 4790K SABERTOOTH Z97 MARK 1 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 Corsair  
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Corsair  Seagate ST31500341AS MSI DH24ABS Stock 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 10 64 bit Samsung 2233RZ BenQ XL2411Z Filco Majestouch-2 (Cherry MX Black) 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G403 Razer Gigantus ROG Thunderbolt 
  hide details  
Reply
post #10 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alya View Post

Some sensors (3360, which is the non-exclusive 3366) suffer from higher smoothing levels at higher DPIs, I believe the 3366 has 2 frames across all CPI levels though.
qsxcv, uaok, or wareya will have to confirm this.

There's also angular granularity, where you can only turn a specific amount per game regardless of sensitivity, so I think even below 1 sensitivity won't make you turn less than that (0.022 in CS:GO for example) but trism knows more about that than I do.

Yes you are correct, we (forum members) have debated that in a few threads.

As i use such a middle group sens at 26 cm /360 and 800 DPI i never suffer from that since my DPI level is so low.

Also teamliquids walkthrough in the link i posted about CPI and Sensitivity in an Inverted World Transform Matrix is the only resource i have found that bring up the difference between how mouse sensors work in 3d worlds liker fps games and 2d worlds like a RTS.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Mice
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Mice › Need clarification on low DPI vs high DPI.