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[TH] Fujitsu To Mass-Produce NRAM Carbon Nanotube Memory In 2018 - Page 2

post #11 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

Tech has been taking a 'retro' turn for a while. Samsung's 40 nm vertical NAND and now Fujitsu with 55nm Carbon Nanotubes in the shape of 80's rectangular chipsets... It is almost like we reached the fundamental Kelvin temperature limit and any colder acts like plasma hot. I hope this tech is not so unreachable as room temperature superconductors.redface.gif

with NAND they perform faster on larger nodes AND they last longer... all else equal

Though in practice that means they up the bits per cell... think TLC 55nm vs 40nm MLC vs 32nm SLC.
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post #12 of 31
Been reading about this company not too long ago. Their memory tech is quite interesting.
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post #13 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by kckyle View Post

meanwhile i just purchased a intel x25-e cause i thought it would be cool to have SLC


Samsung new Z SSD is SLC based.
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post #14 of 31
Fujitsu huh? I realize they are still a pretty big company actually, but you dont tend to hear about them in computer hardware space. I wonder if these really will be produced for SSD or DRAM use, or if Fujitsu is planning on using the chips for some of their other products. Perhaps they plan to use these for instrumentation devices to eliminate a bottleneck is recording high speed data? Or maybe in some PLC or HMI type application to greatly speed up saving non-volatile variables in operation so cycle times dont suffer, or in those same applications to greatly boost endurance of NV writes to "EEPROM"
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post #15 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

Wow, this is even better than 3D Xpoint, if the article is to be believed. Bit addressable, very very high endurance (at least 10^12), non-volatile, and faster. Also they are willing to license it to anyone.

Seriously impressive, hope we see in it consumer devices sooner rather than later. drool.gif

These claims are similar to the "new battery technology improves lifetime 10x"

In theory the performance might be there however this doesn't mean that the product will yield the same performance standard
post #16 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

Samsung new Z SSD is SLC based.
source? just googled it and many sources are claim it would be tlc.
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post #17 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yttrium View Post

These claims are similar to the "new battery technology improves lifetime 10x"

In theory the performance might be there however this doesn't mean that the product will yield the same performance standard

True, but this is not like all those battey tech announcements, they have working prototypes with the first shipping devices expected at around half the cost of DRAM. They are using older (larger) classic wafer lithography techniques. Nothing needs to be invented to take it from here to production, it is all engineering now. No one has ever suggested one of those 10x lifetime batteries was going into ramp-up for full scale production two years.

The tech is supposed to be crazy fast but "limited by the DRAM interface" now. If it come out with "only" DRAM speeds at first I will still want it quite badly. wink.gif
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post #18 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

True, but this is not like all those battey tech announcements, they have working prototypes with the first shipping devices expected at around half the cost of DRAM. They are using older (larger) classic wafer lithography techniques. Nothing needs to be invented to take it from here to production, it is all engineering now. No one has ever suggested one of those 10x lifetime batteries was going into ramp-up for full scale production two years.

The tech is supposed to be crazy fast but "limited by the DRAM interface" now. If it come out with "only" DRAM speeds at first I will still want it quite badly. wink.gif

It is limited to DRAM interface speed right now because it uses a DRAM interface. Until this is designed and built using an NVME interface it cant really be used as a regular drive, and then will be constrained by NVME speeds, which I believe is simply a limitation of the number of PCI-E lanes. So about 4GB/s before overhead, which is WAY slower than what the DRAM interface is capable of. We wont ever see DRAM like speeds unless we get to something like PCI-E 6.0, and use 8x lanes to connect to one of these drives. Anything less and we will be bottle necked by the PCI-E transfer speeds.
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post #19 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

It is limited to DRAM interface speed right now because it uses a DRAM interface. Until this is designed and built using an NVME interface it cant really be used as a regular drive, and then will be constrained by NVME speeds, which I believe is simply a limitation of the number of PCI-E lanes. So about 4GB/s before overhead, which is WAY slower than what the DRAM interface is capable of. We wont ever see DRAM like speeds unless we get to something like PCI-E 6.0, and use 8x lanes to connect to one of these drives. Anything less and we will be bottle necked by the PCI-E transfer speeds.

We could connect with a x16 3.0 connection, on X99 for example, which is a pretty nice 15.75 GB/s. Or the ability to address memory in DDR4 slots as storage could be added to the UEFI and OS, or further into the future a direct bus into the CPU could be added.

Or it could replace DDR4 entirely and we use it as both storage and RAM, instant boot computers that never load files into memory, they just access it from memory as they do now with our DRAM. This should allow the dream brought on by 3D Xpoint but without the extra "for slow/embedded devices that do not write too much" caveat.

There are a lot of ways to realize the performance and if they really can switch in picoseconds, I am happy for the future of computing. CPUs may not be getting that much faster anytime soon but memory and storage seem to have a lot of room to grow into. It is odd to think of new generations of computers having vastly better storage/memory performance but with only somewhat improved CPUs.

Dense low power memory that can take 400°C also allows sensors to be placed almost anywhere, it sounds a lot more revolutionary than even 3D Xpoint.

I hope it really is easy to scale up. tongue.gif
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post #20 of 31
They mention it can switch states in pico-seconds but don't mention the exact or average time and left me curious about something, but unfortunately i am not skilled anywhere near enough to attempt an educated guess at what frequency would theoretically be possible to reach if the nanotubes were to be applied as a transistor in a cpu? (ignoring limitations such as the silicon substract and other metal layers, or with, why not)

Anyone knowledgeable enough to enlighten me/us for sake of curiosity?
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