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post #31 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuper View Post

Not sure what you're saying but each time i see your post , there is always negative point (about their product).Your posts are worse than AMD PR!

Why do you blame AMD when one wants to compare RX 480 to GTX 1080? Blame AMD fanboy not AMD.

their products are fine.Feel free to read this review of HIS Radeon RX 480 IceQ X2 8GB.

http://videocardz.com/review/his-radeon-rx-480-iceq-x2-roaring-turbo-8gb-review

Still RX 480 can hold GTX1060.If their Products are decent , It's useless that you write negative post in every AMD thread.

Because AMD were the ones who compared the 480 to the 1080? At least lets get that straight. it was not AMD fanboys. AMD themselves claimed that the 480 is going to break the 1080 on their release presentation of the 480.

The IceQ is also not made by AMD. It is an aftermarket card. If that card can do very well, it definitely means that AMD did something very wrong with the reference card. Especially when it is funny comparing an aftermarket card to a stock card. An aftermarket 1060 does very well as well doesn't it?

Maybe the 480 can hold compared to the 1060. And were did I say their products are all crap? I was stating about their PR being negative against others instead of concentrating on what is good about them. There are no hidden meanings in what I wrote. There is no bashing AMD products. I was clear in what I was stating. I was talking about their PR, not their cards.

You trying to find hidden meanings and stating stuff I did not say, makes me sad, and shows AMD PR are right on point with their fans apparently, since you seem to really love hating everything no right there with your agenda.
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post #32 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Because AMD were the ones who compared the 480 to the 1080? At least lets get that straight. it was not AMD fanboys. AMD themselves claimed that the 480 is going to break the 1080 on their release presentation of the 480.

They compared 2x480 to 1080 in one single game. ONE SINGLE GAME. and 2x rx480 not one.
Quote:
You trying to find hidden meanings and stating stuff I did not say, makes me sad

And you are finding hidden meanings and stating stuff Amd did not say see above LOL.

agenda, someone has alot of it.

PR is going to use something to fight, if not performance its something else. even Nvdia compares it's products to competitor just look at what they did with recent benchmark mumbo jumbo with intel. why anyone should care what PR of intel/amd/nvidia does ? does it make you feel bad about nvidia ? lol

you have tons of 3rd party data to judge a product, PR is irrelevant. but go on you gotta fill your quota of amd hate. biggrin.gif
Edited by EightDee8D - 9/4/16 at 7:36am
post #33 of 74
To be fair, those saying that AMD has lost revenue and become a budget company specifically because of releasing "uncompetitive" products should consider how the semi-conductor business works.

The more dense reason has much to do with the fact that they became a fabless company and spun off their fab with Spansion.

Name another company that has survived the fab -> fabless movement, and created CPU and GPU IP?

Thing is, you can't. The limits of silicon and the price of having a new fab per process is too high.

Thing is Intel has never been a lean machine, and until recently, they haven't needed to be lean - but even they are getting the shaft with silicon now. Look at the ~12,000 people laid off recently. To top this off, Intel has the BEST process of any company in the world, and even they have reached their limits. (Look at how they failed mobile and are now going to foundry for ARM, their direct competitor for ISA)

This has the largest influence in product richness in technology. Long gone are the early 2000's when we still believed in Moore's Law, and the product portfolio of every company very easily shows the impact.

Nvidia is the least impacted company of all, because they never had a fab in the first place, and only have maintained GPU IP. Back then, they were not so "competitive", either. If anything, they were an underdog with even with only one type of product in their portfolio.
post #34 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/intel-reports-record-full-year-revenue-of-55-9-billion-generates-net-income-of-11-7-billion-up-22-percent-year-over-year/

55.9b for 2015. You probably caught a quarterly number or something other than revenue, like I did on my annual AMD revenue figure which should have been annual rather than for a quarter. Nevertheless, it's an impressively low number when you consider how thinly spread that revenue must be to keep their CPU and GPU divisions ticking.
This part, you're wrong on. http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/Intel-still-hasnt-paid-AMD-12-billion-USD-anti-trust-fine

I was being consistent, as all the numbers are all quarterly. To compared annual revenues to quarterly revenues is just stupid.

All the numbers are correct.

You are wrong, that PCper article is wrong.

This has been proven many many times. The author of that article is just stupid. This was proven many times over in the other thread, which this was originally posted.

PCper is literally the only website that think a EU fine actually goes to AMD. The PCper article already states, that Intel settled and paid out the USA antitrust lawsuit. Their mistake is thinking the EU fine goes to AMD rather than the EU. All EU fines or any fine in general go to the government. Their is a difference between a fine and a lawsuit settlement. E.g when you get a speeding fine, who does the money go to? When you get sued in court, who does the money go to?

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/consumers/institutions_en.html

"The money paid in fines goes back into the EU budget."

Straight from the horses mouth.

Basically no other article thinks that the money goes to AMD. When one articles is an outsider compared to others, which one do you think is wrong?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3086895/hardware/eu-court-has-intel-inside-appealing-14-billion-antitrust-fine.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-21/intel-fights-record-1-2-billion-antitrust-fine-at-top-eu-court

http://www.siliconbeat.com/2016/06/21/biz-break-intel-tries-get-1-2-billion-eu-fine/

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/matthew-wilson/intel-to-fight-massive-1-2-billion-eu-antitrust-fine/

Even the original PC perpective article noted Intel paid their AMD lawsuit. But if you need more proof here you go.

Look at their cash and cash equivalents

http://quarterlyearnings.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1377777&highlight=

http://www.cnet.com/news/intel-to-pay-amd-1-25-billion-in-antitrust-settlement/

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/technology/companies/13chip.html?_r=0

Lets just drop this **** because I have seen this PCPer article referenced way too many times. Look at the comments, the readers also know this and I hope this sinks in for you.
Edited by tajoh111 - 9/4/16 at 1:02pm
post #35 of 74
I thought this thread was about PAX West and tweets from GPU vendors...

Did I miss something?
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post #36 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

To be fair, it's not just their PR team. It's AMD's general business model. It has to be, because NV has a yearly revenue that is roughly 5x larger than AMD as a whole. Intel has a yearly revenue that is roughly 55x larger than AMD as a whole.

If not for AMD, Intel and NV would both have a monopoly over their respective market. When you look at the way NV leans toward proprietary technology, it's hard not to interpret that as a strike against consumer choice. It's also hard not to interpret it as kicking a dog while it's down.

Now, I'm not saying that anyone should idealize AMD as an objectively moral company. That said, people do naturally work by polarizing their views in that way, and they can often switch to the polar opposite quite quickly without ever recognizing the folly of taking a polarized view in the first place. That's a failure of people, in general -- not AMD.

I don't really care how people get there, but people do need to start sending money AMD's way to preserve competition. AMD can't be expected to compete against Intel with 1/55th of the budget of Intel. They can't be expected to compete against NV with 1/5th of their budget. It's amazing that they're competing at all.

Even when AMD does have superior products, they tend to get blasted. Their most successful CPU products were dusted by Intel's anti-competitive practices. If you don't know about that, there are plenty of articles about it on the internet. Intel still hasn't paid their 1.2 billion settlement, which for AMD would be the equivalent of you having your wage doubled for an entire year. Their most successful GPU products were dusted by consumer dogma.

It's no wonder how they ended up being completely incapable of competition, at certain times.

Consumers do need to recognize that in the long run, the last competitor standing should be viewed as a "good-guy" .. Why? Because if those consumers are too ignorant to understand the need for competition, they should at least fall on an ignorant conclusion that serves their own needs.

And consumers do need a competitor to NV.

Their most successful GPU products were dusted by consumer dogma.
Truth has been spoken. Couldn`t agree more with you. thumb.gif
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post #37 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by inedenimadam View Post

I thought this thread was about PAX West and tweets from GPU vendors...

Did I miss something?



The part where PAX West has devolved into guerilla warfare with pockets of Radeon Resistance fighting the tyrannical grip of Lord Huang and his Green Imperium. :p

 

Seriously though, somebody took PR manoeuvring a bit too earnestly and it led to a competitive writing competition (which I feel Mookster won handily) followed by a classic Hyper-Link Duel.

     
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post #38 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

This is why I hate the AMD PR team.

Instead of concentrating on their products, their performance, their value, the concentrate on making it a "good vs evil" war.
Make more use of your precious opengpu, showcase GPU performance, enhance the value of your price/performance point, and push more products out, more collaborations.

No, lets all push the "lets hate nvidia!" train, or lets "rebel against the common" like the common is such a bad thing.

Even if they hate nvidia, at least they can learn a thing or two from them. Nvidia have great spokesmen, and they are letting their performance speak for itself.

I don't see a good vs evil war in any of those pics or anything shared on twitter recently.

What I see is AMD advertising the "Radeon Rebellion" which is about price/performance. I don't see that as "Good vs. Evil". I think you might be overly sensitive to anything which could be perceived as critical towards nVIDIA even when it isn't.

AMD even went on the record stating that they had changed that old tactic as well. Now they're focussed primarily on price/performance as a means of increasing their market share.
Quote:
“If you’re gonna have a competitor, make it a good one,” said Taylor in an interview with Ars at the VR World Congress expo in Bristol. “In the past we used to reference our competition, but now it’s just about us. I was so pleased at the positive approach [Nvidia] took when we suggested the VR Council. We also work with them in Khronos and on Vulkan. There’s no need for us to be antagonistic. They’re a worthy competitor, we’re doing some things we’re proud of that put us in a leadership position, and we’ll continue to compete with them to the benefit of everybody.”
via http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/04/amd-polaris-will-be-a-mainstream-gpu/
Quote:
The reason Polaris is a big deal, is because I believe we will be able to grow that TAM [total addressable market] significantly," said Taylor. "I don't think Nvidia is going to do anything to increase the TAM, because according to everything we've seen around Pascal, it's a high-end part. I don't know what the price is gonna be, but let's say it's as low as £500/$600 and as high as £800/$1000. That price range is not going to expand the TAM for VR. We're going on the record right now to say Polaris will expand the TAM. Full stop.
Quote:
If you look at the total install base of a Radeon 290, or a GTX 970, or above, it's 7.5 million units. But the issue is that if a publisher wants to sell a £40/$50 game, that's not a big enough market to justify that yet. We've got to prime the pumps, which means somebody has got to start writing cheques to big games publishers. Or we've got to increase the install TAM.
Quote:
When we set out to design this GPU, we set a completely different goal than for the usual way the PC road maps go, those are driven by 'the benchmark score this year is X. Next year we need to target 20 percent better at this cost and this power.' We decided to do something exciting with this GPU. Let's spike it so we can accomplish something we hadn't accomplished before.
Quote:
If you're gonna have a competitor, make it a good one, in the past we used to reference our competition, but now it's just about us. I was so pleased at the positive approach [Nvidia] took when we suggested the VR Council. We also work with them in Khronos and on Vulkan. There's no need for us to be antagonistic. They're a worthy competitor, we're doing some things we're proud of that put us in a leadership position, and we'll continue to compete with them to the benefit of everybody.
Quote:
Are we afraid of our competitors? No, we're completely unafraid of our competitors, for the most part, because—in the case of Nvidia—they don't appear to care that much about VR. And in the case of the dollars spent on R&D, they seem to be very happy doing stuff in the car industry, and long may that continue—good luck to them. We're spending our dollars in the areas we're focused on.

Source: http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2016/04/amd-focusing-on-vr-mid-range-polaris/


Where is this "Good vs Evil" ??

AMD are focussed on bringing down the cost of GPUs (this will include Vega) in order to increase the install base. With an increase in install base then the PC can now become a cheap VR platform PC hardware wise (thus compensating for the VR headset costs). AMD want developers to code specifically for GCN thus by increasing their TAM (Total Addressable Market) they can achieve this goal without paying off developers (because despite what some people say... that is happening on the green side).

AMD, on the other hand, simply offers full support to devs (GPUOpen and developer-centric support) and marketing agreements. No big cheques are going to devs (they don't have the money).

As for the Radeon Pro Duo, that you and others have mocked, the goal is to target the content producers prior to the arrival of Vega (giving you a glimpse of Vega performance). Don't believe me?
Quote:
VR content creation is a market and business in of itself," said Taylor. "Previously, if you look at the 3D industry, or any new and emerging technology, the content creation industry has always been necessary to support, but as a market by itself, not anywhere as big as consumption. Right now the content creation industry is as big as the consumption industry and that's why I go to quite a lot of effort to talk about VRaaS [virtual reality as a service].
Quote:
The other thing that's important to note is, right now, all the focus is on consumers," continued Taylor. "Where are the games? But the VRaaS market will keep VR going, even if consumers are disappointed. There are so many applications for VR that will sustain an industry while it develops itself...The interesting thing is to compare games to Hollywood, where no one is waiting for anyone—everyone is jumping straight in. We have an office in Hollywood, a team in Hollywood. Believe it or not, Nvidia doesn't have anyone within 200 miles of Hollywood—not a single soul.
Quote:
We now make better drivers that Nvidia. Now when could anybody at AMD have the courage to stand up and say that?
(true again).
Quote:
We sat back and looked at some of the things that were said [by developers], much of which I quite frankly attribute to GameWorks in terms of issues in the past—horrible programme, but let's not go down that road,
(true again)
Quote:
We want to have a more robust and stronger engagement with the development community. More interestingly, the VR development community is much larger, and much wider than just games development. There's a university and academia support to VR. There are new companies making VRX [VR visual effects] content. There's the VRaaS stuff. We're investing heavily in that, and we're recruiting in that area, and we're going to do more.
Quote:
Whether you're making fast single-threaded performance, or faster multicore performance, whether you're building a faster GPU, none of it is anything more than just plastic and sand unless you have great content,
Quote:
Today's AMD understands that. I have two leaders that understand we have to deliver great content to the ecosystem. It's simple really, but the focus is there.

So AMD is targeting the content producers, the consumers (price/performance), the growing VR industry and soon the high-performance market. So by creating content producing products, increasing the TAM and supporting the growing VR market... AMD hopes to cut into nVIDIA's marketshare (and it is working).

AMD Desktop GPU Share Q4 2015: 26.2% Discrete GPU Share Q1 2016: 29.4% (+3.2) Discrete GPU Share Q2 2016: 34.2% (+4.2)
Nvidia Desktop GPU Share Q4 2015: 73.8% Discrete GPU Share Q1 2016: 70.6% (-3.2) Discrete GPU Share Q2 2016: 65.8% (-4.2)

None of that is "Good vs. Evil" and compared to the stuff Taylor used to say (and AMD PR in general) things are rather tame nowadays. The ultimate goal is to have GPUOpen as a standard. This would be a good thing for ALL gamer's as GPUOpen code can be optimized for both AMD and nVIDIA architectures. This allows everyone to use newer nifty features rather than the current "tied selling approach" followed by the green team.
Edited by Mahigan - 9/4/16 at 6:17pm
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post #39 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by inedenimadam View Post

I thought this thread was about PAX West and tweets from GPU vendors...

Did I miss something?
Seems like we are all missing something. Talking about how your average joe will spend $200 on a GPU to run their new $500 VR headset. I can't even get people to spend $150 on a complete APU setup in a full build.
post #40 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogon View Post

Seems like we are all missing something. Talking about how your average joe will spend $200 on a GPU to run their new $500 VR headset. I can't even get people to spend $150 on a complete APU setup in a full build.

I've been back for a month (in Canada)... so far.. 4 VR PCs built with RX 480s for friends and family alone. My father went for a dual RX 480 setup (Sapphire Nitro+ boards) to go with his HTC Vive VR headset.

I've been pairing them with Intel 6600K CPUs, for now, but if Zen proves to be a good price/performance competitor to Intel then goodbye Intel (unless someone specifically requests an Intel build), because more cores are going to be the way forward for DX12/Vulkan and upcoming VR content.

My Father needed VR for this and other projects he is working on.. http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/06/22/virtual-reality-film-arapaho-will-take-viewers-heart-tribe-160811

Yeah he's the CEO of APTN (Aboriginal People's Television Network http://aptn.ca/) and some of the content they're partnered up for (and working on) is VR oriented. See, APTN was the first Media Enterprise to offer 1080p (HD) programming in Canada and even covered the Winter Olympics at the time in HD (because my father is a tech nut).

So there is a growing market for VR.
Edited by Mahigan - 9/4/16 at 7:23pm
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