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[Seeking Alpha] AMD: More Confirmation Of Zen Troubles - Page 7

post #61 of 114
Just build an intel rig on newegg to see price.

8 core

Cheap mobo that wont blow up

3600 4x8gb ram cl17

Only 2300$ cad


Cmon we need zen to perform mad.gif
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post #62 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonami2 View Post

Just build an intel rig on newegg to see price.

8 core

Cheap mobo that wont blow up

3600 4x8gb ram cl17

Only 2300$ cad


Cmon we need zen to perform mad.gif

Don't worry it'll perform, this stock analyst shill is why AMD suffers time to time, they're trying to make short gains profit off of their stock by manipulating people to sell and reduce the value so they can on other individuals whim. It's technically illegal.
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post #63 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

Don't worry it'll perform, this stock analyst shill is why AMD suffers time to time, they're trying to make short gains profit off of their stock by manipulating people to sell and reduce the value so they can on other individuals whim. It's technically illegal.

This.
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post #64 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

Don't worry it'll perform, this stock analyst shill is why AMD suffers time to time, they're trying to make short gains profit off of their stock by manipulating people to sell and reduce the value so they can on other individuals whim. It's technically illegal.

Pfft, since when do laws apply to the financial sector. They rarely get prosecuted unless it's multi-billion dollaresque levels and more rarely go to jail over it. It's usually fines that don't go anywhere near the amount of profit made.

To keep it somewhat on topic and in the spirit of the forum as a whole, you could compare it to the $1.2 billion (you can also add $1.4 billion in the EU fines if you really want to) Intel paid AMD in anti-trust fines from the early 2000s. Do you think Intel really cared when they had a gross revenue of $38 billion in 2006 during the Athlon days, $35 billion in 2009 after the anti-trust case, or $60 billion for 2015 and a market share that ballooned from their lowest point ever of 50% in 2006 back to 75% in 2009 and is now over 80% in 2015 in the x86 space. Intel doesn't care, they already made way more then that $2.6 billion in fines. That was a single quarter worth of gross profit, whoopty doo, they still got far more money then what they 'lost.'

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go bump some Immortal Technique Rich Man's World (1%) for the giggles after this.
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post #65 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

Seeking what? Seeking what alpha? Seriously these guys are scrubs to stock markets and blatant manipulators.

The performance increase is not from bulldozer but excavator which means Seeking Alpha is full retard.
^ this

They're worse than wccftech

/thread
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post #66 of 114
people's opinions and perspective always comes into play when talking about Stocks. Usually they are flat out wrong.

I've yet to sample Zen, or even Bristol Ridge parts (excavator core parts on am4 platform) So I cannot make any real claims about it. What we do know is that Intel currently mops the floor with AMD cpu offerings.

I mean you can favorably compare an I3-6300 to an FX 8350, and most people would pick the I3 if they were to choose based on hard data. It's rather sad an 8 core cpu is being bested by a dual core cpu with hyperthreading. That is the state we are in right now. The FX chips were somewhat decent back in 2011 and earlier, but Intel's gap has just broadened. Here we are in 2016 and the am3+ platform is still "new" for amd and the best cpu's they offer for it are cough well 5+ years old. Talk about ditching the high end market.

Based on what I've seen of Zen so far, it will reduce the gap between Intel and AMD alot, and make things much more competitive again.
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post #67 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebduncan View Post

people's opinions and perspective always comes into play when talking about Stocks. Usually they are flat out wrong.

I've yet to sample Zen, or even Bristol Ridge parts (excavator core parts on am4 platform) So I cannot make any real claims about it. What we do know is that Intel currently mops the floor with AMD cpu offerings.

I mean you can favorably compare an I3-6300 to an FX 8350, and most people would pick the I3 if they were to choose based on hard data. It's rather sad an 8 core cpu is being bested by a dual core cpu with hyperthreading. That is the state we are in right now. The FX chips were somewhat decent back in 2011 and earlier, but Intel's gap has just broadened. Here we are in 2016 and the am3+ platform is still "new" for amd and the best cpu's they offer for it are cough well 5+ years old. Talk about ditching the high end market.

Based on what I've seen of Zen so far, it will reduce the gap between Intel and AMD alot, and make things much more competitive again.

 

Great post, I agree with this assessment. The thing about BD/PD is that the design itself was what held AMD back. It wasn't a lack of ability on the part of the engineers. They were given a set of imperatives and did what they could with that. Given that, it's amazing that they were able to 'compete' at all rather than be relegated to VIA status. Zen is a totally different approach that accepts Intel's leadership position for what it is and approaches the problem from that angle rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. I'm supremely interested in what Jim Keller and AMD's engineers have achieved with that approach.

     
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post #68 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

Great post, I agree with this assessment. The thing about BD/PD is that the design itself was what held AMD back. It wasn't a lack of ability on the part of the engineers. They were given a set of imperatives and did what they could with that. Given that, it's amazing that they were able to 'compete' at all rather than be relegated to VIA status. Zen is a totally different approach that accepts Intel's leadership position for what it is and approaches the problem from that angle rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. I'm supremely interested in what Jim Keller and AMD's engineers have achieved with that approach.

Well BD development started back in '06/'07? Back when AMD still had a 45-50% market share and were still in the upswing. Might be they just got cocky and thought they would be calling the shots soon, or at least taken seriously, and programmers would start going into greater parallelism which didn't start happening until recently. Heck some major programs and games still only run on a single thread, let alone the majority being <4 still these days.

Also, from what I've heard/remember was BD was going to be a strictly server part, where it's easier to go highly parallel, but cut further Phenom development and lumped all their eggs into the BD basket. Don't take my word for it, my memory can be fuzzy sometimes.
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post #69 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themisseble View Post

Probably higher clock are the reason for delay?
Basically I will be buying new CPU in next few months... I really wanna get ZEN. I hope it will be good.

Zen hasn't been delayed, the schedule has always included a metal layer revision period which was expected to end late Q2 or early Q3 2016. AMD seems confident that they can release without major new silicon changes - which is a good sign considering they are well into validations with working CPUs on hand with partners. I have zero doubt AMD would be searching for every chance to increase clock speeds... 'simple' metal-layer updates have been known to bring meaningful improvements in that regard for AMD in the past.

Bristol Ridge should be announced soon-ish. I think AMD decided to debut it with another product. Being able to buy an AM4 system with the promise of Zen on the horizon would make buying AMD tenable again, provided prices are sane. Hard to justify any current AMD CPU purchase.
post #70 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletBait View Post


Well BD development started back in '06/'07? Back when AMD still had a 45-50% market share and were still in the upswing. Might be they just got cocky and thought they would be calling the shots soon, or at least taken seriously, and programmers would start going into greater parallelism which didn't start happening until recently. Heck some major programs and games still only run on a single thread, let alone the majority being <4 still these days.

Also, from what I've heard/remember was BD was going to be a strictly server part, where it's easier to go highly parallel, but cut further Phenom development and lumped all their eggs into the BD basket. Don't take my word for it, my memory can be fuzzy sometimes.

 

Well that's exactly it so far as I can tell. AMD's management basically told the engineers "hey, I know we rode this horse to a big win but we're thinking we're going to shoot it and train a new one from unproven stock that we hear has real potential. It will be great at hurdles at the expense of straightaway speed, and we'll just assume new tracks will be built with hurdles because it would improve the races if they all included hurdles." To complete the analogy, very few people built any hurdles into their tracks, and by the time BD improved (PD and beyond) the arch was old, the process dated, and here we are now.

 

It was a bad management decision. I've always had confidence in AMD's engineers. The fact that they made PD/Kaveri/Exca et al. from the tragicomedy of BD is impressive taken in its own right. They've maintained competitive products in most GPU tiers despite significant handicaps. Give those engineers a Jim Keller project and I have great confidence that something positive will come of it. As many have said, it doesn't have to come out and beat a 6700k in ST or 6950x in MT to be a winner. It's just got to offer modern (Haswell-ish) core performance that isn't gimped by HT or cache troubles, and come attached to an exciting, forward-looking platform. I think it's doable and I think that the mainstream i5/i7 segment is going to have some competition come 2017.

     
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Intel 530 Series 480GB SSD Seagate 2TB SSHD LG DVD RW Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 40" Vizio HDTV HP Generic EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650w 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Carbide 300R Logitech Generic HyperX Cloud 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-6300 @ 4.3GHz 1.35v Biostar TA970 v5.3 MSI HD 6950 2GB G.Skill Ripjaws Z 16GB (4x4GB) 1600 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Cryorig H5 Ultimate Corsair AF120 (White LED) x3 Corsair AF140 (White LED) x2 Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell S2440L Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 EVGA B2 850w Corsair 300R 
Mouse
SteelSeries Rival 300 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [Seeking Alpha] AMD: More Confirmation Of Zen Troubles