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[PCGAMER] Cyberpunk 2077 now has more people working on it than The Witcher 3 ever did - Page 24

post #231 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Yes within the Witcher fanbase the game is fine to some criticism. The funny thing is after playing Witcher 3 it makes other recent game look so bad that you begin to question people that have problems with Witcher 3. I like Witcher 3 for that it is. People seem to think they know more than the developer regarding the combat and how they prefer a different style.

Well, after the three Witcher games it is quite safe to say CDPR isn't adept at designing excellent combat systems. People can overrate developers too. Combat and gameplay as a whole isn't their forte.
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post #232 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredgunner View Post

Well, after the three Witcher games it is quite safe to say CDPR isn't adept at designing excellent combat systems. People can overrate developers too. Combat and gameplay as a whole isn't their forte.

They have changed it each time. What is good combat? World of Warcraft? Dark Souls?
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post #233 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Yes within the Witcher fanbase the game is fine to some criticism. The funny thing is after playing Witcher 3 it makes other recent game look so bad that you begin to question people that have problems with Witcher 3. I like Witcher 3 for that it is. People seem to think they know more than the developer regarding the combat and how they prefer a different style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

They have changed it each time. What is good combat? World of Warcraft? Dark Souls?

I have put at least a thousand hours into the STALKER franchise. I love them to bits and have played every one of the three games at least 10 times with different mods each time. And I do criticise them. A lot. Because nothing is flawless.

But you can't love a game and be blind regarding its problems. The Witcher 3 relies on its incredible and detailed background, its very engaging characters, its different and non-repetitive seconcary missions and many other things... but the combat is, to be blunt, terribly poor.

I'm not asking for a hack'n'slash. Nor a Tekken styled combat.... Nope. But you can't look me into my (virtual) eyes and tell me that a combat that involves 2 keys (attack + dodge) with the occasional sign is a good combat method. And you can't tell me that pausing the game to use a bloody oil or a decoction doesn't break the immersion. Heck The Witcher 1 combat is probably better than it is in The Witcher 3. At least in the first one you create memento by properly pressing the buttons. But in the last one? I don't know, but The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of time had far better combat. At least you enjoyed actually fighting with things. On a more modern note... DA:I has miles ahead better combat than TW3. At least you don't have to pause the game 73 times every time you attack a big mob. And if you play with a gamepad it is even worse because you have to go through the signs to use them.

No, you can't argue that TW3 has good combat, because it does not. A combat similar to Darksiders, for instance, would have made the game much better in that aspect. And imo, it suits the game. If you want to have so many items to use then make the combat tactical (like DA:O) and be done with it. Why do I want 20 different oils and 205040202 potions when I have no slots for oils and only 4 slots for consumables? Pause-pause-pause-pause-pause and more pause.

Again, I'm 70 hours into the game and I love it. Overall. But you could transform the combat into cinematics and I wouldn't complain. Why? Because I do not play TW3 for its combat. I play it for its story, lore, immersion, etc. With that said, thank god the devs where clever enough to eliminate farming and grinding. Want exp and levels? Do missions. That is a brilliant idea the other devs should copy, because this way the game "forces you" to do a ton of missions, without ever telling you to do missions or anything similar.
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post #234 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post


I have put at least a thousand hours into the STALKER franchise. I love them to bits and have played every one of the three games at least 10 times with different mods each time. And I do criticise them. A lot. Because nothing is flawless.

But you can't love a game and be blind regarding its problems. The Witcher 3 relies on its incredible and detailed background, its very engaging characters, its different and non-repetitive seconcary missions and many other things... but the combat is, to be blunt, terribly poor.

I'm not asking for a hack'n'slash. Nor a Tekken styled combat.... Nope. But you can't look me into my (virtual) eyes and tell me that a combat that involves 2 keys (attack + dodge) with the occasional sign is a good combat method. And you can't tell me that pausing the game to use a bloody oil or a decoction doesn't break the immersion. Heck The Witcher 1 combat is probably better than it is in The Witcher 3. At least in the first one you create memento by properly pressing the buttons. But in the last one? I don't know, but The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of time had far better combat. At least you enjoyed actually fighting with things. On a more modern note... DA:I has miles ahead better combat than TW3. At least you don't have to pause the game 73 times every time you attack a big mob. And if you play with a gamepad it is even worse because you have to go through the signs to use them.

No, you can't argue that TW3 has good combat, because it does not. A combat similar to Darksiders, for instance, would have made the game much better in that aspect. And imo, it suits the game. If you want to have so many items to use then make the combat tactical (like DA:O) and be done with it. Why do I want 20 different oils and 205040202 potions when I have no slots for oils and only 4 slots for consumables? Pause-pause-pause-pause-pause and more pause.

Again, I'm 70 hours into the game and I love it. Overall. But you could transform the combat into cinematics and I wouldn't complain. Why? Because I do not play TW3 for its combat. I play it for its story, lore, immersion, etc. With that said, thank god the devs where clever enough to eliminate farming and grinding. Want exp and levels? Do missions. That is a brilliant idea the other devs should copy, because this way the game "forces you" to do a ton of missions, without ever telling you to do missions or anything similar.

The game is made so you do not have to used potions at all. If oils where essential than it would have been to complex for many people. I have 240 hours in the games and never used oils. The idea is that you set up before a fight with the required oils and potions to fight a certain type of enemy. All I did in Witcher 3 was play the amazing story, tons of Gwent and spin and spin with swords while using 1 of the sighs at the time. Played both controller and keyboard+mouse. I do not think given the dev time they could have focused more in combat.

Also I have no idea what good combat is and most people dont either. Last game "similar" to Witcher 3 has been GW2 and before that some hack and slash game and WoW.
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post #235 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

The game is made so you do not have to used potions at all. If oils where essential than it would have been to complex for many people. I have 240 hours in the games and never used oils. The idea is that you set up before a fight with the required oils and potions to fight a certain type of enemy. All I did in Witcher 3 was play the amazing story, tons of Gwent and spin and spin with swords while using 1 of the sighs at the time. Played both controller and keyboard+mouse. I do not think given the dev time they could have focused more in combat.

Also I have no idea what good combat is and most people dont either. Last game "similar" to Witcher 3 has been GW2 and before that some hack and slash game and WoW.

Do you realise you just agreed with me?
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post #236 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredgunner View Post

Well, after the three Witcher games it is quite safe to say CDPR isn't adept at designing excellent combat systems. People can overrate developers too. Combat and gameplay as a whole isn't their forte.

No one expected deep philosophical games to be Croteam's forte either tongue.gif

CDPR are showing betterment in the gameplay department though. Problem is there is some regression in storytelling. The layering within the world is almost peerless, but sometimes... simplifying stuff for gamers is a bad idea tongue.gif
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post #237 of 267
One of my previous posts gave some in-depth examples of ideas I had for combat, as well as the recent spell discussion. More physics, more fluidity/responsiveness, more skill emphasis and less button mashing. I cited Sleeping Dogs and even The Matrix: Path of Neo for inspiration, which are two third person action games that also seek to overwhelm the player with numbers yet they have excellent fluidity (the latter for its time at least), more responsiveness and an actual combo system that's above button mashing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charcharo View Post

No one expected deep philosophical games to be Croteam's forte either tongue.gif

CDPR are showing betterment in the gameplay department though. Problem is there is some regression in storytelling. The layering within the world is almost peerless, but sometimes... simplifying stuff for gamers is a bad idea tongue.gif

They are getting better, that much is true. I'm expecting Cyberpunk's gameplay to be better too, but I have no idea what to expect from its storytelling or role-playing.
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post #238 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

They have changed it each time. What is good combat? World of Warcraft? Dark Souls?

Depends on how abstract one wants it to be. For a cRPG with fixed character that have extensive backgrounds and who aren't meant to be direct translations of the player or silent protagonists, I like something a bit more abstract than the way things have been going in the Witcher franchise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post

Heck The Witcher 1 combat is probably better than it is in The Witcher 3. At least in the first one you create memento by properly pressing the buttons.

I'm one of a minority of people that liked the original Witcher's combat more than the others. It was simple, flowed reasonably well, and most important, from my perspective, didn't get in the way. It wasn't the best combat system I've seen, not by a long shot, but I didn't feel my enjoyment, or my character's abilities, were being overtly held back by the combat system. It was abstract, without being too limiting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charcharo View Post

Problem is there is some regression in storytelling.

Also something that worries me, with regard to future CDPR titles.
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post #239 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredgunner View Post

One of my previous posts gave some in-depth examples of ideas I had for combat, as well as the recent spell discussion. More physics, more fluidity/responsiveness, more skill emphasis and less button mashing. I cited Sleeping Dogs and even The Matrix: Path of Neo for inspiration, which are two third person action games that also seek to overwhelm the player with numbers yet they have excellent fluidity (the latter for its time at least), more responsiveness and an actual combo system that's above button mashing.
They are getting better, that much is true. I'm expecting Cyberpunk's gameplay to be better too, but I have no idea what to expect from its storytelling or role-playing.

I expect better normal Role-playing elements, inferior thematic role-playing and probably a generally worse story and world layering (which would still make it good). No more Sapko stuff to basically imitate tongue.gif

But still probably a good game.
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post #240 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charcharo View Post

I expect better normal Role-playing elements, inferior thematic role-playing and probably a generally worse story and world layering (which would still make it good). No more Sapko stuff to basically imitate tongue.gif

But still probably a good game.

IMO, what makes or breaks TW isn't the books, but the interpretation the guys at CDPR made. You can't tell me all of the missions in the games are taken from the books... but I can tell you that many side missions in TW are far more interesting that many whole stories many games feature. Other devs can't get good stories? They can, but they aren't as hardworking as CDP is.

Jeez you only have to look at the buildings or caves: how many elements have been copied and reused? Surprisingly, not many, or not in a way that is obvious. The map is huge but not repetitive or tedious, something incredibly hard to manage. Also, game and item balance overall is quite good too. Inventory managing in TW3 is also very good (sans combat-usage of items... that is very bad).

If anything, TW might have imposed a lof of things on the game itself... simply because you can't roleplay when you are telling a story. Don't get me wrong, I love Geralt as a character... but you can't roleplay him, since he is a character that has been already built. You simply discover his story and take some simple decisions. In 2077? They have an empty blanket.

I don't know, but CDPR are probably the only devs I'd pre-order blindly. They tick most of the boxes. And the ones that don't get fairly compensated by the others. They gained attention and traction on TW and now they can go on a forgotten genre such as steampunk and build something incredible on top of it.

Now... I can only dream that they were to get the rights of Stalker and make an FPS smile.gif A huge map with a good back-story + the detail they imprint... jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [PCGAMER] Cyberpunk 2077 now has more people working on it than The Witcher 3 ever did