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Any idea how to take apart a corsair ML140? - Page 2

post #11 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BURGER4life View Post

If the blades don't come off by pulling them they may be secured by a clip on the end of the shaft you'll need to remove. To find it you want to take off the sticker of the backside and look on the shaft if possible.

Hmm I may give it a shot, just afraid I'll break them lol but thanks smile.gif
post #12 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanVFX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BURGER4life View Post

If the blades don't come off by pulling them they may be secured by a clip on the end of the shaft you'll need to remove. To find it you want to take off the sticker of the backside and look on the shaft if possible.

Hmm I may give it a shot, just afraid I'll break them lol but thanks smile.gif
Did you give it a try? Please let me know as I want to buy a bunch but I won't until I know if I can or can't.
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post #13 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

"AF" and "SP" are just marketing hype .. same as "hybrid" is.

Let us set and contemplate this 'AF' and 'SP' and manufacturer's fan specifications for a minute.......

@doyll, when you see statements like the following it is time to just shake your head and leave. The Kool Aid here is strong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanVFX View Post

To be fair the ML fans are hybrid, not AF or SP in partically and when you consider the long warranty you get with them, the amount of both SP and AF they put out, and the noise levels, they quiet amazing fans, but regardless please stick to the meaning behind my original post and don't try to start arguments, thank you.
post #14 of 32
I'm honestly not sure you'll be able to open up those fans. These fancy bearings they use these days are pretty much no access allowed. You can try though, maybe I'm wrong, but it is a potentially expensive experiment.

OT: Quiet and performing aren't really good descriptions of Corsair fans.

I've given 8 Deltas AFB1212SH pwm to a friend of mine to replace 8 Corsair SP120 on his rads. At same rpm and around same ambient temp he dropped 12° on the CPU at load and the noise level consistently (not measured but told me literally "not nearly as loud at 1800 rpm as those kiddy toys").

Also: you can put whatever fancy blade design and bearing in your fan, but they're completely useless without a quality motor and sturdy materials thumb.gif
     
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post #15 of 32
I reviewed the line in a piece named "Corsair ML Pro Series Review" on Vortez.net, published 2-8-16 (Brit style; 2016-08-02 banker style). Averaging 8 fans, the 140mm ML fans made 56 dBA noise at 10cm (adjusted to 1m, that's 36 dBA). On a 30 FPI rad they pushed 62 CFM. Without obstruction they pushed 124 CFM. The comparable figures for the TY-143 were 60/40 dBA, 93 CFM and 152 CFM, which goes to show you the nothing is free; everything costs. For greater output you get more noise.

I don't say that my anemometer is more accurate than Corsair's anemometer. But the Thermalrights and the Corsairs were tested on the same anemometer, which makes the results comparable.

I did not try to pull off the fan blades, though. As you can see from my review, these are beautiful fans.
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post #16 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehume View Post

I reviewed the line in a piece named "Corsair ML Pro Series Review" on Vortez.net, published 2-8-16 (Brit style; 2016-08-02 banker style). Averaging 8 fans, the 140mm ML fans made 56 dBA noise at 10cm (adjusted to 1m, that's 36 dBA). On a 30 FPI rad they pushed 62 CFM. Without obstruction they pushed 124 CFM. The comparable figures for the TY-143 were 60/40 dBA, 93 CFM and 152 CFM, which goes to show you the nothing is free; everything costs. For greater output you get more noise.

I don't say that my anemometer is more accurate than Corsair's anemometer. But the Thermalrights and the Corsairs were tested on the same anemometer, which makes the results comparable.

I did not try to pull off the fan blades, though. As you can see from my review, these are beautiful fans.
To clarify, it's not 'Brit style', it is day-month-year format .. which is commonly used in much of the world.
Easiest way to clarify is to write it 2016 Aug 2 or 2 Aug 2016.

Problem with Vortez fan review is testing, it is only 12v / full speed testing .. so we have no idea how the fans perform when they are used the way many if not most of us use them .. with fan speed based on temperatures .. meaning fans rarely if ever run at their maximum speed.
post #17 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehume View Post

I reviewed the line in a piece named "Corsair ML Pro Series Review" on Vortez.net, published 2-8-16 (Brit style; 2016-08-02 banker style). Averaging 8 fans, the 140mm ML fans made 56 dBA noise at 10cm (adjusted to 1m, that's 36 dBA). On a 30 FPI rad they pushed 62 CFM. Without obstruction they pushed 124 CFM. The comparable figures for the TY-143 were 60/40 dBA, 93 CFM and 152 CFM, which goes to show you the nothing is free; everything costs. For greater output you get more noise.

I don't say that my anemometer is more accurate than Corsair's anemometer. But the Thermalrights and the Corsairs were tested on the same anemometer, which makes the results comparable.

I did not try to pull off the fan blades, though. As you can see from my review, these are beautiful fans.
To clarify, it's not 'Brit style', it is day-month-year format .. which is commonly used in much of the world.
Easiest way to clarify is to write it 2016 Aug 2 or 2 Aug 2016.

Problem with Vortez fan review is testing, it is only 12v / full speed testing .. so we have no idea how the fans perform when they are used the way many if not most of us use them .. with fan speed based on temperatures .. meaning fans rarely if ever run at their maximum speed.


The trouble with collecting that info is trying to get sound measures at intermediate speeds, then portraying the data. Getting RPM data and comparing CFM to RPM is an indirect measure of SPL (sound pressure level), and often not accurate.  RPM and SPL (in dBA) do not correspond linearly. What users care about is CFM vs dBA. The RPM is a linking value that might not reflect the perceived noise.

 

Getting SPL based on RPM is not accurate, since fans are never in free air, except for testing. And mounting a fan to measure its CFM risks producing a sound box in the testing equipment.

 

And then there is the issue of How Much Cooling? PWM fans self-adjust, depending on the CFM needed. So it comes down to How Much Cooling Will I Need, and How Much Noise Will It Cost to Get That Cooling?

 

It's all too complicated.

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post #18 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehume View Post


The trouble with collecting that info is trying to get sound measures at intermediate speeds, then portraying the data. Getting RPM data and comparing CFM to RPM is an indirect measure of SPL (sound pressure level), and often not accurate.  RPM and SPL (in dBA) do not correspond linearly. What users care about is CFM vs dBA. The RPM is a linking value that might not reflect the perceived noise.

Getting SPL based on RPM is not accurate, since fans are never in free air, except for testing. And mounting a fan to measure its CFM risks producing a sound box in the testing equipment.

And then there is the issue of How Much Cooling? PWM fans self-adjust, depending on the CFM needed. So it comes down to How Much Cooling Will I Need, and How Much Noise Will It Cost to Get That Cooling?

It's all too complicated.
Much of what you say is true.
Quote:
The trouble with collecting that info is trying to get sound measures at intermediate speeds, then portraying the data. Getting RPM data and comparing CFM to RPM is an indirect measure of SPL (sound pressure level), and often not accurate.  RPM and SPL (in dBA) do not correspond linearly. What users care about is CFM vs dBA. The RPM is a linking value that might not reflect the perceived noise.
I understand the problems of testing fans, as you well know. Much of the reason I don't publish more test results is because of the problems involved.

Sound level / sound pressure measurements are often not accurate regardless of fan speed, so that is a moot point.

RPM is rather irrelevant, just as you said. But it does give users an idea .. a reference to gauge how the fan will perform in their uses.

Other testers collect and publish the data.

All I'm saying is only publishing full speed fan data is not as relevant to most of us as data over the fan's entire speed range.

The fact that sound level and airflow are not linear is the reason test data of fans only at full speed is not as relevant to users as test data at normal operating speed.
Quote:
Getting SPL based on RPM is not accurate, since fans are never in free air, except for testing. And mounting a fan to measure its CFM risks producing a sound box in the testing equipment.
What has 'in free air' have to do with your results? Are you testing in free air? I thought you were using a radiator on a box, then recording the airflow and sound level of fan in this application.
Quote:
And then there is the issue of How Much Cooling? PWM fans self-adjust, depending on the CFM needed. So it comes down to How Much Cooling Will I Need, and How Much Noise Will It Cost to Get That Cooling?
I do not see how this relates to your answer to my post.

I was simply pointing out that full speed fan testing and results are of limited value to the average user .. and you know this. But many new users do not know it, so I posted to make them aware.
Edited by doyll - 9/28/16 at 4:15am
post #19 of 32

I look at three speeds: free air (no load), load (filter, 16FPI rad or 30 FPI rad) and vane head (unobstructed, but still a light load). I record all 3 speeds, but publish only the free air speed. The load and unobstructed speeds differ from the free air speed, and usually from each other. This is true no matter what PWM setting you have selected. So that is one reason I don't bother with speeds other than the free air speed. And I put that down for reference, but ignore it thereafter. Actually, when I have tested some fans on free air, filter, 16FPI rad, 30FPI rad and vane head, I can observe five speeds. Graphing such would be impossible.

 

As for other reviewers putting down RPM vs CFM, I don't consider those results valid. That's why I have never done them. Perhaps PWM% vs CFM results would be reliable and valid, but PWM %'s rise to meet the cooling need.

 

The only valid graph would be a dBA vs CFM graph. But you would have to make sure you avoided the sound box effect (think guitar or violin) when you mount your fan on a rad or by itself on a CFM-measuring chamber. That would require a difficult-to-make testing chamber. Practicalities suggest you'd want differing front walls, so you would only need to make a single testing chamber. But that brings in more complications. It could all be done, I suppose, but at great cost or great labor. Few have money or time for such things.


Edited by ehume - 9/28/16 at 5:31pm
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post #20 of 32
Of course rpm is dependent on airflow resistance. To me that's just common sense.

I understand the complexity an cost of being able to test fan airflow and sound levels in a restricted airflow environment, but the reality is that is the environment we use them in. Any other testing is rather a waste of time and effort.

It's not that hard to build a restricted flow test system that allows for reasonably accurate sound and airflow monitoring A radiator mounted to small box that is dampened so sound does not resonate / penetrate it while monitoring fan from a right angle position to fan outside of the box. After all, the radiator is on front of box and fan is on front of radiator. For me the hardest part is getting room quiet enough so fan sound level is above room ambient dB. I have to monitor from 50 cm rather than 1 meter because room has about 30dB ambient.
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