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[Digital Foundry] Three hours with PlayStation 4 Pro - Page 2

post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by renx View Post

I couldn't see any HDR output myself, but I've been told that it looks really good. As if it was made with a much better render engine.
You get better and more realistic lights and shadows, among other color related goodies.

Just go to any bestbuy type store and look at Sonys 4k tv in HDR. They're usually running a demo of a hdr/nonhdr on the same display. I did it in France and i wont say i was completely blown away (as ive been using HDR for the past 10years already) but on a tv it definitely looks great on a 4k.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post

I don't know what HDR content you have been watching on what HDR TV, but if that's your assessment of a proper HDR presentation, then reality must look pretty photoshopped to you. The HDR content i've watched felt like i was looking out a window. Revolutionary image quality.

You do know that your eye sight isnt HDR right haha. HDR will get rid of hazing, just how a polarizer gets rid of a blown out sky to make it look more "natural".

What a camera sees filming is exactly what you see if you watched it live, issue is. They use TONS of filters ON camera to make it look more "realistic". Would you want to watch a movie where the sky was blown out the whole time? I don't think so.

Ive been doing photography for the past 15years, i know all about filters, HDR, and 4k cameras before 4k was even known. HDR isn't realistic. If you think it is thats just idiotic.

Yes its going to give you way better colors, shadows, etc etc but in gaming thats why it will look different. A game is graphical, while a tv/movie is filmed. Theres an undeniable difference.

If you think HDR gaming will look like HDR video then sorry to say but you're the one who needs proper assessment of HDR lol. No offense.
Edited by bluej511 - 9/8/16 at 3:34am
    
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post #12 of 24
Quick video demonstration for those interested. HDR would get rid of the haze, but guess what. We would STILL see the haze in real life, over/under exposing are in-camera features/modifications. Its essentially in-camera photoshop.

http://tubularinsights.com/hdr-video/
    
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post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

Just go to any bestbuy type store and look at Sonys 4k tv in HDR. They're usually running a demo of a hdr/nonhdr on the same display. I did it in France and i wont say i was completely blown away (as ive been using HDR for the past 10years already) but on a tv it definitely looks great on a 4k.

Got it, thanks!
Maybe the differences are more striking in games.
That occurs to me, because in real pictures we're used to see real lights and shadows, but in games I believe we'd probably notice a bigger change.
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by renx View Post

Got it, thanks!
Maybe the differences are more striking in games.
That occurs to me, because in real pictures we're used to see real lights and shadows, but in games I believe we'd probably notice a bigger change.

Yea thats exactly why in gaming it will make a WAY bigger difference. The eye sees at supposedly 20 f/stops. HDR is a range of -2 to +2 depending on the image/video. Idk how its going to work in gaming as i'm not a designer/gaming architect.

No technology/idea will ever be able to replicate how we see with the human eye.
    
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post #15 of 24
bluej511: I doubt you have seen HDR with proper content an/or all devices properly set up to utilize it, if you think the IQ is not WAY BETTER. A PC IPS Monitor is not even close to what these TV's can deliver.

You have been using HDR for the past 10 years? lol. You need to see it on a new TV with HDR10/Dolby Vision and proper HDR content. This is all new stuff. "HDR" on cameras for example, have been here for years and it's not the same at all.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-three-hours-with-playstation-4-pro

Here they also say HDR is a bigger improvement than the higher resolution and that it made a huge difference.

I've used 1440p for years and HDR is a bigger upgrade than UHD in my eyes.

HDR won't tax the GPU anymore than SDR.
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post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

If you think HDR gaming will look like HDR video then sorry to say but you're the one who needs proper assessment of HDR lol. No offense.
By the very definition, gaming cannot look as realistic as reality. Really weird comparison. The way HDR gaming will look will depend entirely on how devs will resolve its application, one would think. But i suppose you're a guru on HDR gaming.
    
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post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lass3 View Post

bluej511: I doubt you have seen HDR with proper content an/or all devices properly set up to utilize it, if you think the IQ is not WAY BETTER. A PC IPS Monitor is not even close to what these TV's can deliver.

You have been using HDR for the past 10 years? lol. You need to see it on a new TV with HDR10/Dolby Vision and proper HDR content. This is all new stuff. "HDR" on cameras for example, have been here for years and it's not the same at all.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-three-hours-with-playstation-4-pro

Here they also say HDR is a bigger improvement than the higher resolution and that it made a huge difference.

I've used 1440p for years and HDR is a bigger upgrade than UHD in my eyes.

HDR won't tax the GPU anymore than SDR.

Been doing HDR photography for 10years, yes its a bit different and its why im only applying HDR to photography. I have seen it in cinematography as well and while it does look beautiful its not as crazy as people think. Its pretty much 4k with nicer colors, doesnt change resolution, pixel count, sharpness etc.

I do believe that HDR will in fact tax the gpu more, more colors needs more rendition and possibly even more tessellation, depends how its implemented as well thats the main issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post

By the very definition, gaming cannot look as realistic as reality. Really weird comparison. The way HDR gaming will look will depend entirely on how devs will resolve its application, one would think. But i suppose you're a guru on HDR gaming.

No need to be snippy good sir. All i said is HDR is a POST-processing utility its not going to magical make gaming or movies/videos look realistic. No technology compares to the actual human eye that can see a luminance range of 46 f/stops. If youre not familiar a camera can only do about 20 or so, and an HDR IMAGE can only do about 6.

Is it going to look better in games then in movies/tv? Absolutely, especially in 4-8k. PC monitors have been able to do 4k for years already just didn't have the technology available. HDR should look better in games but again as we said its totally dependent on its implementation.
    
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post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post


Been doing HDR photography for 10years, yes its a bit different and its why im only applying HDR to photography. I have seen it in cinematography as well and while it does look beautiful its not as crazy as people think. Its pretty much 4k with nicer colors, doesnt change resolution, pixel count, sharpness etc.

I do believe that HDR will in fact tax the gpu more, more colors needs more rendition and possibly even more tessellation, depends how its implemented as well thats the main issue.
No need to be snippy good sir. All i said is HDR is a POST-processing utility its not going to magical make gaming or movies/videos look realistic. No technology compares to the actual human eye that can see a luminance range of 46 f/stops. If youre not familiar a camera can only do about 20 or so, and an HDR IMAGE can only do about 6.

Is it going to look better in games then in movies/tv? Absolutely, especially in 4-8k. PC monitors have been able to do 4k for years already just didn't have the technology available. HDR should look better in games but again as we said its totally dependent on its implementation.

Photography HDR and display HDR are really two different ideas.

 

With photography you achieve greater detail over a wider range, typically by composing several photos with various exposures (which I'm sure you know). Each exposure will be more sensitive to a specific brightness. If the photo is underexposed it will be more detailed in lighter areas such as sky and clouds while an overexposed picture will be more detailed in darker areas such as shadows. When the detailed sections of the various exposures are combined you get a more detailed image across the entire range. In this case white is still white and black is still black and the image will look (more or less) the same on any calibrated screen.

 

With display technology it's dealing with image presentation and not capture. Displays achieve "HDR" by utilizing a high contrast ratio, high brightness, and low black levels which allows for truer blacks and whiter whites, all on the same screen. The signal also has a 10 bit color signal which allows for a wider color range. This could potentially mean a performance hit for games but it seems unlikely.

post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

Been doing HDR photography for 10years, yes its a bit different and its why im only applying HDR to photography. I have seen it in cinematography as well and while it does look beautiful its not as crazy as people think. Its pretty much 4k with nicer colors, doesnt change resolution, pixel count, sharpness etc.

You're fundamentally mistaken about what HDR is in relation to 4K TV's.

HDR in Photography isn't just "a bit different", it's compressing contrast, almost the opposite of the HDR that's being implemented it displays right now.

HDR in UHDTV terms is guaranteeing a certain level of brightness and black level. It's like if someone gave you paper that could shine a light in your face wherever you print an image of the sun.
post #20 of 24
bluej511;
You're confusing the different definitions/aspects of HDR....

What you're talking about is HDRI, as in imaging. That is indeed what you describe.
There's also HDRR. Which is rendering. It uses the same principle as above, but for gaming. This has been available since the first CryEngine iirc.

And then there's the HDR we're talking about here, which is HDR Video. Unlike the prior two, it does not (only) focus on avoiding detail loss of very bright or very dark parts of an image, but it focuses on expanding the gamma curve for displays and video content. In other words, it focuses on representing colors more accurately to match our visual systems, by among others having a a much higher contrast ratio, much higher peak brightness, more bits per pixel and so on. It's not three images blended together.
Edited by NightAntilli - 9/8/16 at 6:32am
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