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[POLYGON] Sony boss: PS4 Pro is going after the PC audience - Page 61

post #601 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffdamann View Post

Look, if Sony or Microsoft were to release a non custom box loaded with their own console OS that was completely consumer PC parts, that was marketed as a PC and not a console, and had developers develop for that specific set of hardware, I would be fine with it. Something like an XboxPC or PSPC. As it stands now though, the only reason consoles exist is to take advantage of uninformed consumers or die hards or people who just don't realize like a lot of people on this site, and put more money into their pocket and make these things live as long as possible, no matter how hard it detriments the gaming community.
And what would exactly that achieve? Why should they market them as PC's instead of consoles?

And the bold,because you say so right? Get off your high horse. It's pathethic when persons like you think PC is the only good choice. And cut the BS,claiming consoles "detriment the gaming community".

Biased like always huh.
post #602 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoLDii3 View Post

And what would exactly that achieve? Why should they market them as PC's instead of consoles?

And the bold,because you say so right? Get off your high horse. It's pathethic when persons like you think PC is the only good choice. And cut the BS,claiming consoles "detriment the gaming community".

Biased like always huh.

A console is still a PC, just a pathetic one. But marketing's power over the masses is absolute. See consoles and their success for an ironic example. If they market a XboxPC or PSPC or something (marketing also can get a better name..) well, they will sell well. It is that simple.

Consoles do not detriment the PC Gaming community much. Yeah they lead to people that are scared of strategy/tactics and tycoon games, which is quite sad as those genres are amazing, but apart from that they generally do little. Generally.

Consoles mostly just seem to undermine the gaming art form in the long term. But even that is somewhat debatable for now.
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post #603 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charcharo View Post

A console is still a PC

There we go again... mellowsmiley.gif
post #604 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffdamann View Post

But you are still thinking of this from the wrong perspective. If consoles dies, do you think gamers would go "meh guess I won't game now"? They would buy PCs or at the very least something like an XboxPC as I stated. The number of gamers would still be the same. Games would still be sold to an equal number of people. The only hinderance you can claim is that Sony or Microsoft funded studios might not exist, but whose to say if they didn't exist another more competent dev with a better IP couldnt have sprung up in its place.

Maybe I can say this better.Answer this for me. I know we have discussed this to death but I don't think all my points have been addressed or have just been skimmed over. I would also like a list like this for why you think consoles should exist please. I am just trying to understand this issue from anothers point of view while asserting my own.

Also offer a rebuttal on my assumptions based on the death of consoles below. I am truly trying to understand where the mentality that consoles should exist is coming from.


With consoles being a semi custom varient on PC parts, and only existing to fuel cashflow into the pockets of the parent companies, what is their usefullness beyond doing just that?

- There would be no exclusives, every title released would be for PC

- There would be companies, taking advantage of the console segment, building SFF PCs as console replacements that have more power than current consoles for the same price, as they are getting huge discounts on parts. They could probably secure parts for 50% of MSRP or lower, which equals massively more powerful PCs for the same price.

-Microsoft, also capitilizing on the fact that consoles were dead, would probably have a less featured "Gamer" version of windows, which would allow the PC to function exactly like a console.

-We would no longer get bilked paying massive premiums for proprietary equipment, like a 60$ Dualshock 4

-Games wouldn't have to be ported anymore, all games being PC we wouldn't suffer from bad ports as much

-No more segregation of the gaming community, everyone could play on the same level, no more not being able to play games with your friend because he has a different platform than you No more people making stupid arguments like "You would have to build a 2000$ PC and upgrade it every year for hundreds of dollars to get PS4/Xbone performance"(you know you have seen the less informed say that, not talking about people here"

-More mod support, every game being designed at the core for PC would probably mean a lot more games would come with mod support out of the box, and the modding community would be bigger

-More versatility for all users, everyone would have a PC, so everyone has access to all the functions a PC can perform

-Education - People that were console gamers only would eventually explore and unlock the power of their new PC, they would learn more about technology, maybe start learning photo or video editing, programming, who knows.

Technology - Hardware development would take a quantum leap forward, considering the PC userbase went from mostly niche to extremely mainstream. We would be living in the golden age of hardware

I could go on and on. Please read the above points fully, ponder them, and offer counter points or agreements on the statements above. Please leave me a list of the pros of consoles being around as well.

Alright I will take a stab at it, just woke up so this should get my mind going.

- "There would be no exclusives, every title released would be for PC"

True there would be no exclusives, but you would still have stuff like Star Citizen which you would not be able to play at a respectable level unless you put in a good amount of money into your system. A problem I see coming up would be competition. We most likely have certain dev studio's because of said competition between Microsoft and Sony. They fund large amounts of money to their in-house dev studios to make really good games so it gets people to go buy that console and that game. Without consoles these parent companies would not be funding the same type of money, because they would not be making the same profits if they were just selling a game.

- "There would be companies, taking advantage of the console segment, building SFF PCs as console replacements that have more power than current consoles for the same price, as they are getting huge discounts on parts. They could probably secure parts for 50% of MSRP or lower, which equals massively more powerful PCs for the same price."

We already have steam machines and problem starts coming when there are numerous different choices, it is easier for people not in the know to pick between 3 system that have been a part of their life or around them for decades, good or bad.


-"Microsoft, also capitilizing on the fact that consoles were dead, would probably have a less featured "Gamer" version of windows, which would allow the PC to function exactly like a console."

You may be right, but Microsoft has flip flopped on a lot of their stances when it comes to gaming so who knows with them.

-"We would no longer get bilked paying massive premiums for proprietary equipment, like a 60$ Dualshock 4"

Have you seen the prices that some of these companies charge for gaming headsets *cough* Razor. You will find high prices for stuff everywhere, this is not a console only issue.

-"Games wouldn't have to be ported anymore, all games being PC we wouldn't suffer from bad ports as much"

I agree there would not be as many bad ports, but it would still happen because of PC's more open nature and people running numerous different system configurations.

-"No more segregation of the gaming community, everyone could play on the same level, no more not being able to play games with your friend because he has a different platform than you No more people making stupid arguments like "You would have to build a 2000$ PC and upgrade it every year for hundreds of dollars to get PS4/Xbone performance"(you know you have seen the less informed say that, not talking about people here"

You will still have segregation as I mentioned earlier with games like Star Citizen that pushes the PC boundaries, people with console level pc's will not be having a good time(by the time the game actually comes out this might not be as much of an issue since prices for stronger pc hardware keep getting lower). There would actually be even less people playing on the same level since a lot of different people will have different set-ups. Someone who only has a monitor that allows 60fps will be at a disadvantage compared to someone with one that allows for 120fps. This is one reason I have in the past argued against the Ps4 pro sharing the same multiplayer servers as the normal ps4. There will be a distinct disadvantage if one person is at 25-30fps versus on the pro at 60fps, I can see games trying to combat this by making both 60fps, but how they do it might make an advantage for the ps4 if they decide to lower foliage on the og ps4. This is one thing that the console playerbase has not really had to deal with, whereas it is common in the PC space.

-"More mod support, every game being designed at the core for PC would probably mean a lot more games would come with mod support out of the box, and the modding community would be bigger"

Agree 100%

-"More versatility for all users, everyone would have a PC, so everyone has access to all the functions a PC can perform"

True. Though all my real life friends that only game on consoles do have a cheap pc/laptop that can perform a lot of those other tasks.

-"Education - People that were console gamers only would eventually explore and unlock the power of their new PC, they would learn more about technology, maybe start learning photo or video editing, programming, who knows."

Most console only gamers already own some form of cheap desktop or pc that can perform certain things. You would also still have players like apple etc trying to sell pre-built pc's to unknowing gamers.(had a friend who wanted to get into pc gaming and was about to buy a macbook pro for $1500, he decided at last minute he should call me and my first response to him was NO NO NO, I found him a laptop that had duel gpu's each one being stronger than what was in the Mac, and at the same time saved him $600). People with an interest in photo or video editing will probably end up with a good pc at some point anyways, but you're right and it might get more started earlier.

"Technology - Hardware development would take a quantum leap forward, considering the PC userbase went from mostly niche to extremely mainstream. We would be living in the golden age of hardware"

I would say maybe, the lowest common factor for pc devs is still people on ancient pc's. That is why most consoles play at med to high settings. It would be nice to think that we would be in the golden age of hardware, but imo I think that in reality it would not be the case.
post #605 of 644
None of us are soothsayers, we can't say for certain what would have happened to gaming had consoles never existed. It is a fallacy of an argument because what happened happened and what we have now is what we have, The entire gaming industry is a web woven between developers, hardware makers, console makers, PC software studios, OS developers, gaming platforms such as Steam / Origin, retailers, foundries, CPU / GPU manufacturers, etc. The entire industry is built upon EVERYTHING that has come before now, from Pong (and before really) all the way up to all the games and hardware that is on the drawing board right now. You simply can't assume that to remove a MASSIVE and integral part of this equation wholesale would lead to some great utopia of gaming on a different platform; just doesn't work that way.
post #606 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

None of us are soothsayers, we can't say for certain what would have happened to gaming had consoles never existed. It is a fallacy of an argument because what happened happened and what we have now is what we have, The entire gaming industry is a web woven between developers, hardware makers, console makers, PC software studios, OS developers, gaming platforms such as Steam / Origin, retailers, foundries, CPU / GPU manufacturers, etc. The entire industry is built upon EVERYTHING that has come before now, from Pong (and before really) all the way up to all the games and hardware that is on the drawing board right now. You simply can't assume that to remove a MASSIVE and integral part of this equation wholesale would lead to some great utopia of gaming on a different platform; just doesn't work that way.

No one said anything of them never existing. More like stopping to exist at one point in time.

Nothing will lead to a gaming utopia to be frank.
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post #607 of 644
My thoughts on this whole pc vs console matter is pretty simple. I'm 23, so i was born in 93 and my first real system was a PS so naturally i became a fan of that ecosystem, and didn't care for an Xbox when that released nor the 360 which released a whole year before the ps3, yet i waited and put down $600 on the PS3. I was on the hype train for the PS4 and got one at launch only to ditch it in less than a year.

Around 2008 i was beginning to dabble in PC gaming and had my first real pc with good specs for the time. I believe it was an E8400 dual core cpu and a 8600gts later burned out so i got a 9800GTX+.
So between 2008 and 2014 i was playing on PC and PS3/4, but i've finally reached a point where i can say with confidence i've outgrown needing to own a console, not purely from a maturity pov, but also just looking at it objectively. Back in 80s and 90s and even very early at the turn of the century PCs were cost prohibitive and weren't really seen as a platform for gaming.

All the other systems at those times like sega, nintendo, and eventually sony's PS specialized in gaming and simply just served that purpose far better than a PC and at an affordable price to boot. Today the story is completely different. You can put together a pc that exceeds a console's capabilities for a similar price when you consider all the costs associated with each platform. Not only can you use that PC to play games, but you have the ability to surf the web, run all kinds of apps, use it for work and essentially use the thing to its full potential. A console will just play games and stream video and do it worse than the PC.

I've realized i don't want to be a second class citizen anymore and play on consoles with <1080p resolution and <60fps. One can argue i could have both, and its true i can, but i simply refuse. What am i missing out on by not owning a console? Exclusive titles. That is it, and i know for some those are important so i can understand, but there are plenty of titles on PC exclusive or not to soak up the time, and i can't ever get to play everything especially the older i get the less play time there is. I have a huge backlog of titles i want to get to, but i find myself currently only playing WoW rolleyes.gif

Also i dd watch the conference Sony had where they showed the PS4 Pro and as soon as i learned it wasn't going to have a 4k blu-ray capable drive i closed the stream in disgust. Even Microsoft's cheaper Xbox One S has a 4k player, way to shoot yourselves in the foot there Sony.
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post #608 of 644
Place holder console. They are saying PS5 second half 2018 to counter Scorpio and be more powerful. Totally see this happening. Sony cant fall behind MS this time and they know it. So let MS toot away for 2017 and that holiday year. I actually would not be surprised if Sony announced PS5 holiday time to let MS know they will have a more powerful console available just a few short months after. Its a game. They are playing with consumers wallets and seeing how far they can go.

Further more. I am convinced this is the REAL PS4 that should have launched at the time. Sony held back knowing the Pro will sell quite well leading into the PS5 in 2018. Many people will most likely sell or trade their old PS4 for this upgraded one. It wont cost them as much money.
Edited by FattysGoneWild - 9/24/16 at 12:02am
post #609 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malinkadink View Post

My thoughts on this whole pc vs console matter is pretty simple. I'm 23, so i was born in 93 and my first real system was a PS so naturally i became a fan of that ecosystem, and didn't care for an Xbox when that released nor the 360 which released a whole year before the ps3, yet i waited and put down $600 on the PS3. I was on the hype train for the PS4 and got one at launch only to ditch it in less than a year.

Around 2008 i was beginning to dabble in PC gaming and had my first real pc with good specs for the time. I believe it was an E8400 dual core cpu and a 8600gts later burned out so i got a 9800GTX+.
So between 2008 and 2014 i was playing on PC and PS3/4, but i've finally reached a point where i can say with confidence i've outgrown needing to own a console, not purely from a maturity pov, but also just looking at it objectively. Back in 80s and 90s and even very early at the turn of the century PCs were cost prohibitive and weren't really seen as a platform for gaming.

All the other systems at those times like sega, nintendo, and eventually sony's PS specialized in gaming and simply just served that purpose far better than a PC and at an affordable price to boot. Today the story is completely different. You can put together a pc that exceeds a console's capabilities for a similar price when you consider all the costs associated with each platform. Not only can you use that PC to play games, but you have the ability to surf the web, run all kinds of apps, use it for work and essentially use the thing to its full potential. A console will just play games and stream video and do it worse than the PC.

I've realized i don't want to be a second class citizen anymore and play on consoles with <1080p resolution and <60fps. One can argue i could have both, and its true i can, but i simply refuse. What am i missing out on by not owning a console? Exclusive titles. That is it, and i know for some those are important so i can understand, but there are plenty of titles on PC exclusive or not to soak up the time, and i can't ever get to play everything especially the older i get the less play time there is. I have a huge backlog of titles i want to get to, but i find myself currently only playing WoW rolleyes.gif

Also i dd watch the conference Sony had where they showed the PS4 Pro and as soon as i learned it wasn't going to have a 4k blu-ray capable drive i closed the stream in disgust. Even Microsoft's cheaper Xbox One S has a 4k player, way to shoot yourselves in the foot there Sony.

Weird. We were born the same year, started off as console gamers (although for me it was N64 and one game on SNES), got into PC gaming the same year using the same exact CPU. I've abandoned consoles as well, although even earlier. I don't think gaming PCs were worse back in the late 90s, although I know nothing of the cost back then. Nowadays the only value I see in consoles are exclusive JRPGs on PlayStation (not that I care for this genre at all) and unique exclusive Nintendo games.
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post #610 of 644
I must be odd ball out. Never understood the whole console vs PC. I tend to follow the games no matter the system. That considering I started gaming back on an old Packard Bell with Windows 3.1. But my cousin had a NES and one of those big fat Game Boys. Played the crap out of the PC, the console, and handheld. Since then, I have gamed on NES, SNES, Sega Dreamcast, PS, PS2, Xbox, Xbox 360, N64, Gamecube, Wii, Wii U, Game Boy, Game Boy Color, Game Boy Advance, Nintendo DS, 3DS, and a PS Vita. So far the only ones I have not gamed on is the PS4 or Xbox One since no game so far has catch my attention to warrant buying the system. Which may change soon when KH3, The Last Guardian, and Horizon Zero Dawn drop for the PS4.

Funny thing, I'm way more hyped for Pokemon Sun/Moon then anything else that coming out soon. So the poor 3DS is going to be played the crap out of it again. tongue.gif

On the PS4 Pro, just means I can find cheap PS4s later on. biggrin.gif I'm cheap bugger, did not buy a PS3 until I could nab used ones for 150 bucks. By then games where like super cheap too. Hard to beat buying Assassin Creed: Black Flag and The Last of Us for like 5-6 bucks each.
     
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [POLYGON] Sony boss: PS4 Pro is going after the PC audience