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[Videocardz] Exclusive: First details about AMD VEGA10 and VEGA20 - Page 13

post #121 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klocek001 View Post

no you totally missed it lol
you could keep the setup and just use it differently.
I know what you mean but my will power isn't that strong lol.
post #122 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolerk52 View Post

Yeah, I've had that thought as well. 1500MHz would already be pretty hard to believe for a consumer grade part judging by Polaris, but a server part? Implying 1600~ or more on consumer parts?

And a significantly bigger chip than Polaris 10 which makes those high clocks even more doubtful.

It looks more likely that a 64CUs chip would be repeat of Fiji on 14nm with a die size compared to Polaris 10 like Tahiti to Pitcairn rather than Hawaii to Pitcairn.

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/951-8/performances-theoriques-geometrie.html

ROPs aren't going to be the problem if it has enough memory bandwidth, it's more likely that Fiji was bottlenecked by the front end and if AMD are going for a <400mm2 die then they wouldn't be doubling it.
    
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post #123 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klocek001 View Post

Actually, it really doesn't. Can't remember the source, will paste the link later when I find it, but the benefit of Polaris over GCN 1.3 was pretty measly. Worse than GCN 1.3>GCN 1.1 actually.
There isnt really a GCN2 GPU which you could compare to GCN3 and GCN4 with GCN3 and GCN2 performance difference

Quote:
Okay, here it is. Funny how some ppl laugh at Pascal being beefed up Maxwell while they think Polaris is any better. Polaris over GCN3 is actually worse than GCN3 over the original GCN.



https://www.computerbase.de/2016-08/amd-radeon-polaris-architektur-performance/

The benchmark show that Ellesmere is better than Tonga
Edited by PontiacGTX - 9/24/16 at 10:38am
post #124 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamervivek View Post

And a significantly bigger chip than Polaris 10 which makes those high clocks even more doubtful.

It looks more likely that a 64CUs chip would be repeat of Fiji on 14nm with a die size compared to Polaris 10 like Tahiti to Pitcairn rather than Hawaii to Pitcairn.

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/951-8/performances-theoriques-geometrie.html

ROPs aren't going to be the problem if it has enough memory bandwidth, it's more likely that Fiji was bottlenecked by the front end and if AMD are going for a <400mm2 die then they wouldn't be doubling it.

Yeah, making the chip bigger and likely increasing the transistor density is not going to effect clocks positively. Rather negatively is the likely case.

GP102 takes a small hit vs the gp104. And maxwell and pascal are exception for clock scaling, when scaled up.

Until they change the cores themselves, we are not going to get big frequency jumps, particularly when you note, GCN frequency has been trending downward since tahiti as far as max overclock potential. Polaris helped a bit from the note switch, but if polaris was made on 28nm, you would likely see 1100-1150mhz being the max overclock like fiji or tonga. 1500mhz server parts means 1600mhz gaming parts. This has been ln2 clocks on polaris. The max someone reached so far is 1700mhz on ln2 on polaris and there was no cold bug. So all of a sudden we expect 1600mhz gaming which is close to the ln2 clocks of polaris? It's silly.

Until AMD goes to navi, i don't expect any big frequency potential changes. Nvidia got there big frequency jump which they really changed the cores vs kepler. Pascals clock are basically unleashing the potential which maxwell already had. Compare what Fiji did on ln2 and what maxwell did on ln2 and the current clocks of both chips should not surprise anyone.
post #125 of 236
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

Yeah, making the chip bigger and likely increasing the transistor density is not going to effect clocks positively. Rather negatively is the likely case.

GP102 takes a small hit vs the gp104. And maxwell and pascal are exception for clock scaling, when scaled up.

Until they change the cores themselves, we are not going to get big frequency jumps, particularly when you note, GCN frequency has been trending downward since tahiti as far as max overclock potential. Polaris helped a bit from the note switch, but if polaris was made on 28nm, you would likely see 1100-1150mhz being the max overclock like fiji or tonga. 1500mhz server parts means 1600mhz gaming parts. This has been ln2 clocks on polaris. The max someone reached so far is 1700mhz on ln2 on polaris and there was no cold bug. So all of a sudden we expect 1600mhz gaming which is close to the ln2 clocks of polaris? It's silly.

Until AMD goes to navi, i don't expect any big frequency potential changes. Nvidia got there big frequency jump which they really changed the cores vs kepler. Pascals clock are basically unleashing the potential which maxwell already had. Compare what Fiji did on ln2 and what maxwell did on ln2 and the current clocks of both chips should not surprise anyone.
Well, supposedly Vega is changing the cores themselves, while Polaris pretty much used Fiji/Tonga cores.

Also, the clock speed increase is apparently architectural, rather than from node: http://radeon.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Polaris-Architecture-Whitepaper-Final-08042016.pdf
Under adaptive clocking, it says the feature allowed Polaris to clock about 140MHz higher, which is about the delta from Polaris to 28nm products.
Edited by lolerk52 - 9/24/16 at 11:20pm
post #126 of 236
16GB of VRAM?!!? That seems insanely overkill and like it's only going to hurt AMD as they'll have to factor that into the cost without providing any benefits even at 4K.
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post #127 of 236
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Originally Posted by Phoenixlight View Post

16GB of VRAM?!!? That seems insanely overkill and like it's only going to hurt AMD as they'll have to factor that into the cost without providing any benefits even at 4K.

4GiB stacks were the first to be available. 2GiB stacks exist, but using them would likely delay Vega's release or risk supply issues.
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post #128 of 236
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Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

4GiB stacks were the first to be available. 2GiB stacks exist, but using them would likely delay Vega's release or risk supply issues.

Any speculation that there might be 8gb or 12gb versions later? I'd hate to see AMD find themselves in the same situation as they did with Fury... meaning they have a competitive part performance-wise but make significantly less profit (than Nvidia) due to higher production costs.
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post #129 of 236
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Originally Posted by Phoenixlight View Post

16GB of VRAM?!!? That seems insanely overkill and like it's only going to hurt AMD as they'll have to factor that into the cost without providing any benefits even at 4K.

The 16gb HBM2 is actually four 128 bit wide 4gb banks that each provide more bandwidth than normal 512 wide GDDR5. It's the methodology of ram allocation that dictates the 16gb. This allows a great deal of flexibility in application for the chip and DOES provide benefits at 4k - especially since the card will be able to access each 4GB bank separately unlike the Titan Xm which can only access 384bit by 6GB at a time. The speed of the HBM comes from its total size.
post #130 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by EightDee8D View Post

512gb/s on 64cu, so it's going to be 2x470 at max. assuming there are no improvements on gfx9. that means close to gtx1080 but slower, so too little too late. redface.gif

Not at all! The Polaris chips are starved of memory bandwidth. A reviewer got his memory to 2250mhz and achieved a huge performance boost from that alone at stock clock.

Not expecting too high, but it should be incredibly competitive against 1080 if not giving NVidia a run for it's money.
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