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Looking to switch to Intel - Page 6

post #51 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by wb123 View Post

I am running an AMD Radeon HD 6870 atm. this does get up to 50 degree C.
50c for GPU is fine and low. 70c+ is hot.
With that in mind, keep the 8350 and get a better GPU like GTX1060 6GB. That will completely decimated the 6870.
If you do not have an SSD, get one.
    
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post #52 of 89

[url=http://pcpartpicker.com/list/yvLV8d]PCPartPicker part list[/url] / [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/list/yvLV8d/by_merchant/]Price breakdown by merchant[/url]

[b]CPU:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/product/gx648d/intel-cpu-bx80662i56600k]Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor[/url]  ($227.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
[b]Motherboard:[/b] [url=http://pcpartpicker.com/product/2GcMnQ/gigabyte-motherboard-gaz170xgaming5]Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 5 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard[/url]  ($159.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
[b]Total:[/b] $387.98
[i]Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available[/i]
[i]Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-09-26 01:22 EDT-0400[/i]

 

 

 

 

First, you must know that the FX CPUs only have one temperature sensor for the whole chip, not one per core. This sensor is a digital sensor, it does not read any physical temperature data and because of this the temp readings at load are almost always wrong, in most cases, the real temp is much much higher than what is shown.  This is also why you might see temps at idle below room temperature which is also false readings. 

 

Anyone who says FX chips are energy efficient has no idea what they are talking about.  Anyone who says FX CPUs run cooler or use less watts then intel also have no idea what they are talking about. 

 

Good luck on your purchase and as always, have fun!


Edited by Dragonsyph - 9/25/16 at 11:17pm
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post #53 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by wb123 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by CravinR1 View Post

With a noctua there should be no heat issue at 4.6-5 ghz let alone stock

At worse reseat and reapply thermal paste.

My hyper 212+ evo keeps my fx8 cool at 4.4 24/7 and 4.6 bench stable.

The cpu is not getting hot at all I am seeing core temps around 15-20 and socket temps 35-40

the heat in my room is just pretty warm after gaming all day.

The 6870 is putting out way more heat than a stock 8350 ever would.

What games do you play , what resolution and what is the refresh rate of your monitor?
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post #54 of 89
orkin, I would agree on upgrading the 6870. Jeez, that's what I had in 2011.

If you can swing it, upgrade to Intel, but also get a new graphics card (even an RX 460 would probably be better than a 6870).
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post #55 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonsyph View Post


First, you must know that the FX CPUs only have one temperature sensor for the whole chip
, not one per core. This sensor is a digital sensor
, it does not read any physical temperature data and because of this the temp readings at load are almost always wrong, in most cases, the real temp is much much higher than what is shown.  This is also why you might see temps at idle below room temperature which is also false readings. 

Anyone who says FX chips are energy efficient has no idea what they are talking about.  Anyone who says FX CPUs run cooler or use less watts then intel also have no idea what they are talking about. 

Good luck on your purchase and as always, have fun!


You are wrong about the FX temperatures. The core reading is accurate above 40C (on load). It's inaccurate for temps below 40C (idle mostly). It reads a VERY physical core temperature, which is though not in Celcius scale. The value in Celcius is then given by software, using an algorithm that AMD provides (pretty much like Celsius needs conversion to Fahrenheit). This algorithm conversion is inaccurate for low temps, which is why it's unreliable for temps below 40C. Then, according to Stilt, there is also another, on die sensor, which is the "CPU temp" (which we like to call socket in the forum, but it's on die): the SBI-TSI:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1134229/amd-cpus-max-temps/410#post_24527554


@ OP


Whether your GPU is 50C or 60C, is irrelevant, as far as the heating of your room goes. A 150W GPU will release heat in the room as if produced by 150W part. The temperature of the GPU or CPU is only an indicator of how fast this heat leaves your case and enters your room. It doesn't mean that if your card runs at 50C, it will heat your room less than someone else's exact same card that runs at 80C. They will BOTH heat up the room the same. The temperatures of your parts are irrelevant. The important is the TDP. A CPU cooled by the stock cooler and a CPU cooled by a Noctua ND14 will heat up the room at the same amount, as in both cases, the CPU will generate the same heat. The difference, is that with the stock cooler, part of the heat will be "trapped" for longer on the hardware and will be partly disiipated by the cooler and a part by the motherboard itself (via back of the socket, mosfet heatsink etc), while with the Noctua, the bigger part will be dissipated by the cooler. It's a matter of respecting the theorem of conservation of energy. You can't make heat disappear into nothing. You can TRANSFER it, into something. Which is in case of PCs, it's air. The faster you can transfer it to the air, the lower the hardware temp will be. But the heat will be in the air, it won't just leave your room by miracle.
Edited by Undervolter - 9/25/16 at 11:46pm
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post #56 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post


You are wrong about the FX temperatures. The core reading is accurate above 40C (on load). It's inaccurate for temps below 40C (idle mostly). It reads a VERY physical core temperature, which is though not in Celcius scale. The value in Celcius is then given by software, using an algorithm that AMD provides (pretty much like Celsius needs conversion to Fahrenheit). This algorithm conversion is inaccurate for low temps, which is why it's unreliable for temps below 40C. Then, according to Stilt, there is also another, on die sensor, which is the "CPU temp" (which we like to call socket in the forum, but it's on die): the SBI-TSI:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1134229/amd-cpus-max-temps/410#post_24527554


@ OP


Whether your GPU is 50C or 60C, is irrelevant, as far as the heating of your room goes. A 150W GPU will release heat in the room as if produced by 150W part. The temperature of the GPU or CPU is only an indicator of how fast this heat leaves your case and enters your room. It doesn't mean that if your card runs at 50C, it will heat your room less than someone else's exact same card that runs at 80C. They will BOTH heat up the room the same. The temperatures of your parts are irrelevant. The important is the TDP. A CPU cooled by the stock cooler and a CPU cooled by a Noctua ND14 will heat up the room at the same amount, as in both cases, the CPU will generate the same heat. The difference, is that with the stock cooler, part of the heat will be "trapped" for longer on the hardware and will be partly disiipated by the cooler and a part by the motherboard itself (via back of the socket, mosfet heatsink etc), while with the Noctua, the bigger part will be dissipated by the cooler. It's a matter of respecting the theorem of conservation of energy. You can't make heat disappear into nothing. You can TRANSFER it, into something. Which is in case of PCs, it's air. The faster you can transfer it to the air, the lower the hardware temp will be. But the heat will be in the air, it won't just leave your room by miracle.

Everyting i said was confirmed in the thread you linked. 

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post #57 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonsyph View Post

Everyting i said was confirmed in the thread you linked. 

I think we both made mistakes.

From AMD's white paper:
Quote:
2.10.1 The Tctl Temperature Scale
Tctl is the processor temperature control value, used by the platform to control cooling systems. Tctl is accessible
through SB-TSI and F3xA4[CurTmp]. Tctl is a non-physical temperature on an arbitrary scale measured in
degrees. It does not represent an actual physical temperature like die or case temperature. Instead, it specifies
the processor temperature relative to the point at which the system must supply the maximum cooling for the
processor’s specified maximum case temperature and maximum thermal power dissipation. It is defined as follows
for all parts:
• For Tctl = 0 to Tctl_max - 0.125: the temperature of the part is [Tctl_max - Tctl] degrees under the temperature
for which maximum cooling is required.
• For Tctl = Tctl_max to 255.875: the temperature of the part is [Tctl - Tctl_max] degrees over the worst-case
expected temperature under normal conditions. The processor may take corrective actions that affects performance
or operation as a result, such as invoking HTC or THERMTRIP_L.

2.10.2 Thermal Diode
The thermal diode is a diode connected to the THERMDA and THERMDC pins used for thermal measurements.
External devices use measurements from the thermal diode measurements to calculate temperature during
operation and test. These measurements are required to be adjusted as specified by F3xE4[DiodeOffset].
This diode offset supports temperature sensors using two sourcing currents only. Other sourcing current implementations
are not compatible with the diode offset and are not supported. A correction to the offset may be
required for temperature sensors using other current sourcing methods. Contact the temperature sensor vendor to determine whether an offset correction is needed. Feature support varies by package. See the Infrastructure Roadmap.

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/696448-K10-and-11-core-temps


Quote:
AMD processors report the temperature via a special register in the CPU's northbridge. Core Temp reads the value from the register and uses a formula provided by AMD to calculate the current temperature.
The formula for the Athlon 64 series, early Opterons and Semprons (K8 architecture) is: 'Core Temp = Value - 49'.
For the newer generation of AMD processors like Phenom, Phenom II, newer Athlons, Semprons and Opterons (K10 architecture and up), and their derivatives, there is a different formula: 'CPU Temp* = Value / 8'.

http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/howitworks.html


The core temp, is read by a CPU registry and it's a non Celcius, arbitrary scale. But it does become accurately translated, when the result is above 40C, if you believe anything in the internet ever since Phenom or AMD Ovedrive.
Then there is the thermal diode, which gives the CPU temp (which is the digital sensor and it reads in C directly).

So the digital sensor, does read a physical temperature, directly in C and thus is always accurate. Another story is the registry that reads tctl scale.
Edited by Undervolter - 9/26/16 at 3:49am
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post #58 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post


I think we both made mistakes.

From AMD's white paper:

The core temp, is read by a CPU registry and it's a non Celcius, arbitrary scale. But it does become accurately translated, when the result is above 40C, if you believe anything in the internet ever since Phenom or AMD Ovedrive.
Then there is the thermal diode, which gives the CPU temp (which is the digital sensor and it reads in C directly).

So the digital sensor, does read a physical temperature, directly in C and thus is always accurate. Another story is the registry that reads tctl scale.

Ok, you convinced me with data and proof, thank you for taking the time to do so.

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post #59 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonsyph View Post

Ok, you convinced me with data and proof, thank you for taking the time to do so.

No problem. The whole situation is confusing. After all this time, i still made a mistake too (tctl is non physical temperature, although i wasn't familiar with such definition at school). I keep several links posted before in oc.net in a place, so that i won't have to search for them again. The issue has come up many times before. The "core temp", i think is completely inaccurate for temps below 40C, because of something similar:

"Different empirical scales may not be compatible with each other, except for small regions of temperature overlap. If an alcohol thermometer and a mercury thermometer have same two fixed points, namely the freezing and boiling point of water, their reading will not agree with each other except at the fixed points, as the linear 1:1 relationship of expansion between any two thermometric substances may not be guaranteed."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale_of_temperature

The key here being, that the AMD's temp scale, doesn't even try to have fixed point to boiling or freezing point. It only seeks to serve the internal purpose of the CPU. And thus, despite the conversion, it is totally misinterpreted at temps below 40C, since the tctl scale is probably incompatible and they only overlap when temps become high. Somehow though, since the scope of this temp is to preserve the core from excessive heat, it has become common amongst overclockers, to swear by it. While ironically, the "CPU temp" (aka "socket"), is often disregarded or deemed insignificant, despite being the result of the digital sensor and in Celcius. Truth be told, this temp can be influenced by the motherboard, hence why AMD says that it's possible the need for offsets. However, it's the only temp that is as accurate as it can get throughout all the spectrum of CPU load.
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Main
(16 items)
 
Dedicated Encoder
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8320@4Ghz Gigabyte 970 UD3P rev2.1 Gainward GTX 750Ti Corsair XMS3 1600Mhz 16GB (4x4GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
Crucial BX100 250GB Western Digital Green 2TB LiteOn Blu-Ray Burner IHBS 112-2 LG BH16NS55 Blu-Ray Burner 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Scythe Katana 3 Windows 7 Pro 64bit ASUS 22" VS228HR Microsoft Wired Keyboard 600 
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EVGA 430W Sharkoon VG4-V Logitech M90 Onboard 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8300 Asrock 970 Extreme3 HIS 6570 Silence Corsair XMS3 1600Mhz 8GB (2x4GB) CAS9 
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post #60 of 89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neurotix View Post

orkin, I would agree on upgrading the 6870. Jeez, that's what I had in 2011.

If you can swing it, upgrade to Intel, but also get a new graphics card (even an RX 460 would probably be better than a 6870).

what version of the RX 460 would you recommend?

I usually play world of Warcraft, Battle Field 4, Heroes of the storm, Diablo 3, Overwatch etc.
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