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[ARSTechnica] ISP explains data caps to FCC: Using the Internet is like eating Oreos - Page 11  

post #101 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

They can. And they do upgrade constantly. Replacing routers to faster ones, replace lines to faster ones, replacing odes, expand to other areas, etc etc.
Comcast which is the biggest US ISP, has 24M users, and their income in Q2 16 was 3.3B$ just from internet alone.
But since they are not only providing internet, but tops of other services, they are using a big portion of that money into generating other income generating things, like TV, movies, sport, etc etc.

If all the money from the internet payment went into internet infrastructure, you will get 100GB/s network for every home, and zero things to see on it (maybe except porn).

About 30% consistently from internet infrastructure income is going back into it (based on US numbers you can check for yourself), and the rest is going to fuel other projects, and of course to pay the share holders about1B$ per quarter in dividends.

So a 30% profit margin, which is pretty insane ROI if you know anything about it. Their ROA is probably higher than any other industry. Especially when you consider that 200 billion subsidy from 1996.

That is not what he said...
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post #102 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

That is not what he said...

I know you know everything about everything Kyad, something you've made sure we all know repeatedly on mumble via your tone, but do you understand how a dividend works or how it is paid?


It's paid out of the profits.


If they earned 3.3 Bn in income.. and they paid a 1 Bn dividend... How much profit did they make to pay the dividend in percentage? Go ahead get a calculator I'll wait.
 
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post #103 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

That is not what he said...

I know you know everything about everything Kyad, something you've made sure we all know repeatedly on mumble via your tone, but do you understand how a dividend works or how it is paid?


It's paid out of the profits.


If they earned 3.3 Bn in income.. and they paid a 1 Bn dividend... How much profit did they make to pay the dividend in percentage? Go ahead get a calculator I'll wait.

Duuude, we haven't even had a mumble server in years. Blast from the past. I haven't been on the OCN TS in forever either, so you must have been holding that grudge for a while! It;s OK, let it all out. grouphug.gif

Anyway;
Quote:
div·i·dend
ˈdivəˌdend/
noun
plural noun: dividends
1.
a sum of money paid regularly (typically quarterly) by a company to its shareholders out of its profits (or reserves).

If the Dividend payout is 30%, then they can't have 30% overall profits or they wouldn't be making any money as a company and wouldn't be able to make multi-billion dollar cash deals - This part was implied by Comcast being rich as hell. More specific to Defoler's post, the internet side specifically can not be making 30% net positive or it would be unable to fund other projects like Defoler was saying. It would need to be much higher than 30% profit margin. I have no idea if his numbers are accurate, but that's why I was saying that wasn't what he said.
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post #104 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by kylzer View Post


Indeed there is a lot of dark fibre not lit

actually the city i work in has a full cable network unused for the last 15 years because of licencing issues mad.gif

so you can't get cable aka virgin media north of dundee rolleyes.gif

we are currently building a pure fibre network for businesses overlaying the old cable network but installs are upwards of £2000 though you can get government vouchers to help with the cost.

Where did you study in america?

i went to Cincinnati never again biggrin.gif


​Arizona; I wanted something different and my da (a scientist himself) was working in New Mexico at the time so it worked out nicely. My uni has a good biomedical sciences programme and Phoenix is about as far from Southern England as you'll find for weather. :2coolsmil

 

The best offers in my area are actually from SSE but their speeds aren't up to Virgin's and their contracts come with more provisos than an international trade agreement.

     
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post #105 of 155
That is an outright fabrication. The marginal cost of a bit of data is zero.
post #106 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Actually some places are doing it like that.
Instead of several taxes, they are putting a tax based on how much you drive. You drive less, you pay less. You drive more, you pay more.
They reason is that the more you use the road, the more you cause the need to maintain it, and hence, you need to pay more.
That is actually pretty logical, and in some countries (france, NZ, russia), it is being applied to trucks. So on your analogy, it is ok to put that tax also on the most heavy users, aka, netflix, or big data users.
The logic works quite well with roads but it would not translate well into Internet usage. You have some people who only use the internet to check their email every couple of days and there is no money to be made on accounts like that when you charge for use only. Then there are people who run high traffic servers(not necessarily big data) that would be put out of business under this type of charge. The only nice thing I could see coming out of something like that is uniform speeds being mandatory.
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post #107 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by xundeadgenesisx View Post

The logic works quite well with roads but it would not translate well into Internet usage. You have some people who only use the internet to check their email every couple of days and there is no money to be made on accounts like that when you charge for use only. Then there are people who run high traffic servers(not necessarily big data) that would be put out of business under this type of charge. The only nice thing I could see coming out of something like that is uniform speeds being mandatory.

As an interesting aside: said 'pay as you drive' tax has been vehemently rejected in almost every state its been attempted. A similar momentum is building against data caps.
post #108 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

That is an outright fabrication. The marginal cost of a bit of data is zero.

So obviously it should be free then? Interesting logic there...
post #109 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

So obviously it should be free then? Interesting logic there...


No but as the marginal cost of producing a product approaches 0 the profit approaches infinity. That's the problem with the oreo analogy. The marginal cost of producing an oreo eventually flatens out at a medium rate. Meaning no matter what. They will always make exactly X profit off of an oreo cookie based on what the charge. The fixed costs will always be the same or very similiar.



When we talk about providing DATA from an ISP the marginal cost of production gets very close to 0 at some point. At that point the profit will skyrocket infinitely until the fixed costs change. See one of the things in economics is as technology gets better providing a product that is technological becomes cheaper. The cost of producing a 90 nm chip is so absurdly small at this point (if we still had the foundries producing 90nm) that you could get 90 nm intel chips for 5 dollars. Think about that same 90 nm chip 20 years ago. It would have been a million dollars to produce. We see the same thing in the ISP space, what's even more egregious is the fact that the ISPs were subsidized for a majority of the fixed cost and capital that is necessary to provide the service. They have one of the highest profit margins of any industry. Comcast hands out dividends pretty regularly (I believe they have done so for almost 12 consecutive years and it is one of the best stocks to own for dividend returns) and it's because their fixed costs have been paid in full long ago and their marginal cost of production is almost 0. Their only costs are paying the rent on the buildings and labor. While the labor cost is probably not cheap, it's also a very small fraction of their total net income. This is why they can take 1 billion dollars a quarter and pay dividends.


Comcast could charge 50 dollars a month for 1 GBps (yes big B) internet and still have a 10+% profit margin.
Edited by Darkpriest667 - 9/27/16 at 8:37pm
 
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post #110 of 155
i wonder how many oreos you could buy for 200 billion dollars...

i bet it's a lot.

to bad they never used it for the oreos they were supposed to make.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [ARSTechnica] ISP explains data caps to FCC: Using the Internet is like eating Oreos