Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [ARSTechnica] ISP explains data caps to FCC: Using the Internet is like eating Oreos
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[ARSTechnica] ISP explains data caps to FCC: Using the Internet is like eating Oreos - Page 10  

post #91 of 155
So will my Internet bill be zero if I go on vacation for a month?

Life lesson folks, people this dumb are in extremely high positions of power.
AMD Box
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320E @ 4.6 GHz +0.356250v offset Asus Sabertooth 990FX Rev1 eVGA GTX 970 SC ACX2.0 Patriot Viper Xtreme 2x4 GB 1600LL 8-9-8-24 1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 EVO WD Black 1 TB 32MB cache FALS WD Blue 1 TB 7200rpm EZEX Corsair H80i 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 x64 HP LP2475w Logitech Illuminated Corsair TX750  
CaseMouseAudio
You don't want to know Logitech G9x Creative Sound Blaster Z 
  hide details  
AMD Box
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320E @ 4.6 GHz +0.356250v offset Asus Sabertooth 990FX Rev1 eVGA GTX 970 SC ACX2.0 Patriot Viper Xtreme 2x4 GB 1600LL 8-9-8-24 1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 EVO WD Black 1 TB 32MB cache FALS WD Blue 1 TB 7200rpm EZEX Corsair H80i 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 x64 HP LP2475w Logitech Illuminated Corsair TX750  
CaseMouseAudio
You don't want to know Logitech G9x Creative Sound Blaster Z 
  hide details  
post #92 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

So will my Internet bill be zero if I go on vacation for a month?

Life lesson folks, people this dumb are in extremely high positions of power.
Exactly. If I decide to save all my oreo's I can just use them next month without having to buy another box right?

I mean, last month I used only 30gb of bandwidth out of my allotted 1tb. I guess that means I would only have to pay 3% of my internet bill...oh yeah, bet they don't like it when the analogy is used to take away money from them rather than us.
post #93 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

What's annoying to me in every one of these threads is the pervasive opinion that everybody has a right to unlimited data for a cheap price and if the ISP's don't deliver that then they are obviously evil. Its just another example of this me-first, entitlement culture that we have nowadays. I mean, I want unlimited electricity and water and food and gas etc but to expect that is not fair or realistic. I don't care how much it costs or doesn't cost the ISP's to provide internet, that's not your business and you don't have a right to demand they simply give it to you. I would love to get unlimited internet just like any other consumer but I don't think the ISP's that don't offer it are evil.

And before you start quoting me the stupid telecom act of 1996 or whatever, I don't think the government had any business giving ANY money to the ISP's (or any other private companies just to promote investment in infrastructure they wish to push); that is not the job of the government and not an acceptable use of tax payer money IMO. These ISP's would have absolutely built all of the same infrastructure anyway once the boom in telecommunications happened...

It isn't about that really. You sell goods or you sell a service. They choose to sell a service.

"You get 200 channels" is a service. You can choose the 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, or 10,000 channel service package. Choosing a higher tier does not increase quality unless it happens to include HD channels. The quality of the normal channels is not reduced. You do not have a time limit on how much TV you may watch despite it being a constant data draw.

"You get one phone line" is a service. You can choose the 1, 2, 3, or 30 line service package. Choosing a higher tier does not increase quality. You do not have a time limit on how long you can call people for despite it being a constant data draw.

"You get 100mbps" is a service. You can choose the 3, 6, 20, 30, 50, 75 or 100mbps service package.

Regardless of which you choose, it is their job to provide you with that service for as long as you continue to pay the agreed cost of that service. If they are capable of providing everyone with the plan they chose at full speed at the same time, then they can do so 24/7, and there is no need for a cap. If they are not capable of supporting everyone at once, then they are overselling their lines, which is simply bad practice as it will lead to not getting advertised speeds during peak hours. It isn't 1940 anymore, we have infrastructure.

Realistically, provided you're willing to pay for it, you do get unlimited utilities. Their payment plan is just different in that you get a set size (say, 1gal/sec and 100KW/hr), and are charged based on how much you use. Internet can go that route, but not reasonably so unless they provide a flat rate speed and charge per KB instead. Unlike paying for utilities though, using the internet doesn't consume anything besides electricity, which your service fee should cover; just like TV these days.

Alternatively, look at Mobile data. They have a cap and charge by data, but they do not list a speed; you get what is available provided your phone can connect on that band. If you have an LTE/4G phone, and they upgrade the towers, you get a speed boost and no charge; you're paying for a goods, a certain amount of data.


TL;DR

That can do what they like, for now anyway unless the FCC gets involved. But that doesn't stop their reasoning from being stupid.

Also the below, if we're going to be comparing to utilities;
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

So will my Internet bill be zero if I go on vacation for a month?

Life lesson folks, people this dumb are in extremely high positions of power.
Forge
(17 items)
 
Forge-LT
(7 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7-5960X (4.625Ghz) ASUS X99-DELUXE/U3.1 EVGA 1080ti SC2 Hybrid EVGA 1080ti SC2 Hybrid 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
64GB Corsair Dominator Platinum (3000Mhz 8x8GB) Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 512GB EK Predator 240 Windows 10 Enterprise x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2x Acer XR341CK Corsair Vengeance K70 RGB Corsair AX1200 Corsair Graphite 780T 
MouseAudioAudioAudio
Corsair Vengeance M65 RGB Sennheiser HD700 Sound Blaster AE-5 Audio Technica AT4040 
Audio
30ART Mic Tube Amp 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4720HQ UX501JW-UB71T GTX 960m 16GB 1600 9-9-9-27 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
512GB PCI-e SSD Windows 10 Pro 4k IPS 
  hide details  
Forge
(17 items)
 
Forge-LT
(7 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7-5960X (4.625Ghz) ASUS X99-DELUXE/U3.1 EVGA 1080ti SC2 Hybrid EVGA 1080ti SC2 Hybrid 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
64GB Corsair Dominator Platinum (3000Mhz 8x8GB) Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 512GB EK Predator 240 Windows 10 Enterprise x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2x Acer XR341CK Corsair Vengeance K70 RGB Corsair AX1200 Corsair Graphite 780T 
MouseAudioAudioAudio
Corsair Vengeance M65 RGB Sennheiser HD700 Sound Blaster AE-5 Audio Technica AT4040 
Audio
30ART Mic Tube Amp 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4720HQ UX501JW-UB71T GTX 960m 16GB 1600 9-9-9-27 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
512GB PCI-e SSD Windows 10 Pro 4k IPS 
  hide details  
post #94 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

So will my Internet bill be zero if I go on vacation for a month?

Life lesson folks, people this dumb are in extremely high positions of power.

They aren't dumb, they know what they're saying is nonsense. They also know a vast majority of people don't understand how the internet works. It's why they say dumb things like this.
post #95 of 155
We've had data caps in AU since Internet was made available to consumers - not sure what all the fuss is with it to be honest...
Crimson Basilisk
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 2600K @ 5.1Ghz AsRock Extreme4 Gen3 Palit GTX 680 Jetstream 2GB Palit GTX 680 Jetstream 2GB 
RAMRAMHard DriveHard Drive
G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
WD Caviar "Black" 1TB SATAII LG WH14NS40 Blu-ray Burner XSPC Rasa CPU (Acetal) Black RX360 Triple Fan Radiator 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
XSPC DDC Two BayRes BMaverick Laing DDC (MCP350) Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Philips 201B 21" CRT 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ViewSonic VX922 19" LCD Diamond Digital Black Antec True Power 750w Antec LanBoy Air Red 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Epic Gear Meduza (By GEIL) Steel Series QCK+ XL Asus Xonar DX ROCCAT Kave 5.1 Surround Sound Gaming Headset 
Other
Sennheiser hd555 
  hide details  
Crimson Basilisk
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 2600K @ 5.1Ghz AsRock Extreme4 Gen3 Palit GTX 680 Jetstream 2GB Palit GTX 680 Jetstream 2GB 
RAMRAMHard DriveHard Drive
G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD Sandisk Extreme 120GB SSD 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
WD Caviar "Black" 1TB SATAII LG WH14NS40 Blu-ray Burner XSPC Rasa CPU (Acetal) Black RX360 Triple Fan Radiator 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
XSPC DDC Two BayRes BMaverick Laing DDC (MCP350) Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Philips 201B 21" CRT 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ViewSonic VX922 19" LCD Diamond Digital Black Antec True Power 750w Antec LanBoy Air Red 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Epic Gear Meduza (By GEIL) Steel Series QCK+ XL Asus Xonar DX ROCCAT Kave 5.1 Surround Sound Gaming Headset 
Other
Sennheiser hd555 
  hide details  
post #96 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

A data cap doesn't really do much to limit peak bandwidth.
This would only be the case if the ISP spends a significant portion of the money it brings on infrastructure, which is very often not the case.
Average broadband speeds were faster in my area of western NY fifteen years ago. Been TWC the whole time, but they have increased prices (at a rate well beyond inflation), capped both bandwidth and data, all the while doing essentially nothing to the infrastructure.

The fact that other areas, of similar population density, but with even a little credible competition, can get ten times the bandwidth at half the price, and apparently still be highly profitable, convinces me that pure profiteering is the status quo.

Data caps don't limit peaks, but it gives the ISP two options:
1. Overcharge if you over use, so more money, and he can over time broad the network.
2. People are less inclined to just download the internet or whatever they see. So on the overall, it can even out things. When you consider that you would like to download a new game, you don't watch netflix 24/7 and spend all your data plan on it.

Maintaining the network cost a huge amount of money. And developing better networks takes a hell of a lot more time. If they put a strong 5TB/s line between two network sections, they would not upgrade it for at least several years, even if the demand is now 10TB/s.

And do you think infrastructure is like maintained by air alone?
Cost of electricity, or leasing areas, maintaining personal to maintain everything, building infrastructure to other places, it all cost money.
It is enough that they increase work payments by 5%, or electricity cost increase, or they need to build a new node for network, that money needs to come from somewhere. And guess who is paying the bills?
Main system
(16 items)
 
Editing PC
(8 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsGraphicsRAM
E5-1680v2 AMD FirePro D700 AMD FirePro D700 64GB 1866mhz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorCase
1TB PCIE SSD OSX 10.10.x Dell U2713H Mac Pro 
  hide details  
Main system
(16 items)
 
Editing PC
(8 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsGraphicsRAM
E5-1680v2 AMD FirePro D700 AMD FirePro D700 64GB 1866mhz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorCase
1TB PCIE SSD OSX 10.10.x Dell U2713H Mac Pro 
  hide details  
post #97 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmotty View Post

Let's go with this argument you have.

If my ISP has 100 Million Customers and is charging them the same $30 a month (basic plan), then that is $3 Billion a month USD. Please explain how on earth they can not afford to upgrade their own infrastructure.

They can. And they do upgrade constantly. Replacing routers to faster ones, replace lines to faster ones, replacing odes, expand to other areas, etc etc.
Comcast which is the biggest US ISP, has 24M users, and their income in Q2 16 was 3.3B$ just from internet alone.
But since they are not only providing internet, but tops of other services, they are using a big portion of that money into generating other income generating things, like TV, movies, sport, etc etc.

If all the money from the internet payment went into internet infrastructure, you will get 100GB/s network for every home, and zero things to see on it (maybe except porn).

About 30% consistently from internet infrastructure income is going back into it (based on US numbers you can check for yourself), and the rest is going to fuel other projects, and of course to pay the share holders about1B$ per quarter in dividends.
Main system
(16 items)
 
Editing PC
(8 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsGraphicsRAM
E5-1680v2 AMD FirePro D700 AMD FirePro D700 64GB 1866mhz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorCase
1TB PCIE SSD OSX 10.10.x Dell U2713H Mac Pro 
  hide details  
Main system
(16 items)
 
Editing PC
(8 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsGraphicsRAM
E5-1680v2 AMD FirePro D700 AMD FirePro D700 64GB 1866mhz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorCase
1TB PCIE SSD OSX 10.10.x Dell U2713H Mac Pro 
  hide details  
post #98 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

They can. And they do upgrade constantly. Replacing routers to faster ones, replace lines to faster ones, replacing odes, expand to other areas, etc etc.
Comcast which is the biggest US ISP, has 24M users, and their income in Q2 16 was 3.3B$ just from internet alone.
But since they are not only providing internet, but tops of other services, they are using a big portion of that money into generating other income generating things, like TV, movies, sport, etc etc.

If all the money from the internet payment went into internet infrastructure, you will get 100GB/s network for every home, and zero things to see on it (maybe except porn).

About 30% consistently from internet infrastructure income is going back into it (based on US numbers you can check for yourself), and the rest is going to fuel other projects, and of course to pay the share holders about1B$ per quarter in dividends.

So a 30% profit margin, which is pretty insane ROI if you know anything about it. Their ROA is probably higher than any other industry. Especially when you consider that 200 billion subsidy from 1996.
 
4th time
(18 items)
 
3rd time
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
5820k ASrock x99 Fatal1ty professional Gigabyte 1080 ti Corsair Vengeance DDR4 CAS 15 32GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung EVO 850 1TB SSD Corsair 110i GTX Microsoft Windows 10 Professional Acer 24 inch IPS 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Acer 24 inch IPS Acer 24 inch IPS Samsung 40 inch Corsair Strafe RGB MX cherry blue 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair HX1000i Corsair Air 540 Corsair M65 RGB  Razer Manticor  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2600k ASROCK Fatal1ty p67 EVGA GTX 980 SC 16380 MBMBDDR3-SDRAM (Gskill) 1600mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung HD103SJ x 2 Samsung 850 EVO  Corsair H100i Windows 10 Professional 
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
Samsung - LN40D550 - 40" LCD TV - 1080p ACER R240HY ACER R240HY ACER R240HY 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
razer black widow Corsair TX850 Coolermaster HAF 932 CM Storm Recon 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
955 MSI 870S-G54 2 x 6850 HIS IceQ-x 8 Gigabytes Gskill 1600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung F3 1TB zalman 90mm Windows Ultimate x64 LG 47'  
MonitorPowerCase
Vizio 37' E370L  OCZ Modstream 700W Logisys CS888CL 
  hide details  
 
4th time
(18 items)
 
3rd time
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
5820k ASrock x99 Fatal1ty professional Gigabyte 1080 ti Corsair Vengeance DDR4 CAS 15 32GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung EVO 850 1TB SSD Corsair 110i GTX Microsoft Windows 10 Professional Acer 24 inch IPS 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Acer 24 inch IPS Acer 24 inch IPS Samsung 40 inch Corsair Strafe RGB MX cherry blue 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair HX1000i Corsair Air 540 Corsair M65 RGB  Razer Manticor  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2600k ASROCK Fatal1ty p67 EVGA GTX 980 SC 16380 MBMBDDR3-SDRAM (Gskill) 1600mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung HD103SJ x 2 Samsung 850 EVO  Corsair H100i Windows 10 Professional 
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
Samsung - LN40D550 - 40" LCD TV - 1080p ACER R240HY ACER R240HY ACER R240HY 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
razer black widow Corsair TX850 Coolermaster HAF 932 CM Storm Recon 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
955 MSI 870S-G54 2 x 6850 HIS IceQ-x 8 Gigabytes Gskill 1600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung F3 1TB zalman 90mm Windows Ultimate x64 LG 47'  
MonitorPowerCase
Vizio 37' E370L  OCZ Modstream 700W Logisys CS888CL 
  hide details  
post #99 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

There's a lot wrong with the telecom industry in the US. When I was at uni I paid somewhere around $80 a month for a 100/10 from Cox. Compare that to a bit under £40 monthly for fttp that I've got now. There's supposedly loads of unused infrastructure sat unused by American telecomms.

Indeed there is a lot of dark fibre not lit

actually the city i work in has a full cable network unused for the last 15 years because of licencing issues mad.gif

so you can't get cable aka virgin media north of dundee rolleyes.gif

we are currently building a pure fibre network for businesses overlaying the old cable network but installs are upwards of £2000 though you can get government vouchers to help with the cost.

Where did you study in america?

i went to Cincinnati never again biggrin.gif
post #100 of 155
Wow the corporate defenders in here are just as bad as the NVIDIA amd AMD threads. You guys don't get to say that resources are finite and that we as consumers have to share. After all that's not what you're selling.

If I agreed to pay X amount per month for Y Mbps, I better be able to consume up to (Y/8)×60×60×24×30 Megabytes per month. I didn't agree to some Y/10 Mbps for 9 out of 10 seconds. Is Mbps too difficult to decipher?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Technology and Science News
This thread is locked  
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [ARSTechnica] ISP explains data caps to FCC: Using the Internet is like eating Oreos