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[ScientificAmerican] Earth’s CO2 Passes the 400 PPM Threshold—Maybe Permanently - Page 11

post #101 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotagonist View Post

You posted a list of a handful of scientists, only about a quarter of whom on that page even complete agree with you. As correctly pointed out by the page I linked, there is no legitimate scientific organization that agrees with your nonsense.

You have a list of about 40 scientists there. Can you please explain how that proves there is no consensus? Here's what you're up against:

National Academy of Sciences (NAS)
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS)
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
The Royal Society of the UK (RS)
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS)
UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)

I used Wikipedia because its impartial. I'm not going to drag political interest groups into the discussion.

It is what it is. I'm sorry if that bothers you.
post #102 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

I used Wikipedia because its impartial. I'm not going to drag political interest groups into the discussion.

It is what it is. I'm sorry if that bothers you.
Great. Here's some information from Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change#Surveys_of_scientists_and_scientific_literature


Quote:
A 2013 paper in Environmental Research Letters reviewed 11,944 abstracts of scientific papers matching "global warming" or "global climate change". They found 4,014 which discussed the cause of recent global warming, and of these "97.1% endorsed the consensus position that humans are causing global warming".

James L. Powell, a former member of the National Science Board and current executive director of the National Physical Science Consortium, analyzed published research on global warming and climate change between 1991 and 2012 and found that of the 13,950 articles in peer-reviewed journals, only 24 rejected anthropogenic global warming.[127] A follow-up analysis looking at 2,258 peer-reviewed climate articles with 9,136 authors published between November 2012 and December 2013 revealed that only one of the 9,136 authors rejected anthropogenic global warming.
post #103 of 189
This is exactly what I was talking about earlier. The moment you mention the fact that not everyone is on board with climate change, the opposition goes ballistic.
post #104 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by inedenimadam View Post

The climate is changing. It is demonstrated through scientific observation. It has done this many many times over. For example, the Sahara used to be a lush paradise. You can travel through the mountains and see the layers of different climates and ecosystems over the years. We live on a rock spinning off center around a ball of fire...things are going to continue to change. Ecosystem change has been fatal to humans in the past. So the question isn't if the climate is going to change or if it is going to be bad for us. The question is can we do anything to slow/reverse the hardship it will cause us? And if we can, will we?
When the earth's shift of rotational axis was 24.1°. Time to melt those ice caps. I estimate if we rehabituate the Sahara, we can invoke the global ice age within a century with our collective carbon fixation conventions.
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post #105 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier. The moment you mention the fact that not everyone is on board with climate change, the opposition goes ballistic.
It's not a fact and no one has gone ballistic. If you think that 97% isn't a consensus, that's on you, but you've presented nothing whatsoever to support your point of view.
post #106 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotagonist View Post

It's not a fact and no one has gone ballistic.

'Consensus' would suggest every scientist in the field acknowledges climate change as fact. This is not the case.
post #107 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

'Consensus' would suggest every scientist in the field acknowledges climate change as fact. This is not the case.
Hold tight to that one report out of 9,000 and that 2.9%.
Quote:
Since 2007, when the American Association of Petroleum Geologists released a revised statement, no scientific body of national or international scientists rejects the findings of human-induced effects on climate change.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change#Opposing
Edited by Pyrotagonist - 9/28/16 at 8:57pm
post #108 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletBait View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post

What's the problem with cutting down old trees?

Clear cutting is a problem, but I've seen pictures of quarter sections of land that went from "clear" to "totally forest again" in 25 years. You might want to wait another 25 years before harvesting them, but as long as you have enough trees surrounding a given space and a lack of grazing animals (and sometimes even with grazing animals) the forest grows at a pretty astounding rate.
Clearcutting is definitely bad, and Tropical Rainforests definitely need to be protected (I'm mostly thinking of the small remaining populations of large cats), and maybe local forest management practices need to be adjusted by 4% to put things back into an upward trend, but trees are actually pretty aggressive organisms.

I will take this one though since we've been fairly cordial with each other so far...

If you're talking about controlled harvesting and prescribed burns, I can agree with that. The problem is when you start wholesale lots at a time, not small lots, I'm talking thousands of contiguous acres at a time. That's more of a slow kill to wildlife in the forest that doesn't adapt as fast and move to more suitable forest that isn't currently being logged. Prescribed burns are also very helpful to clear flammable underbrush and renew the cycle, otherwise you can end up with the scenario that happened in Canada last year with massive forest fires that burned 2.5 million acres in Saskatchewan alone.

Granted, that has nothing to do with CO2/greenhouse (unless you count the massive forest fire and loss of forest) specifically, but it does have an ecology knock on effect as species disappear that goes all the way up and down the local food chain.

Right, my example was a 1/4 square mile area surrounded by existing old forest.
Fixing the problem of deforestation doesn't sound like that big of a problem when I'm sitting here typing on a keyboard, it shouldn't be that hard.

I know well enough that changing human behavior isn't that simple though.

The start if this discussion was "deforestation removes the Earth's ability to balance CO2 levels".
So, the solution "shouldn't" be that hard to implement.
post #109 of 189

 

It's funny because even on that small list, only two sub-sections are even relevant. "Scientists arguing that global warming will have few negative consequences" and to a lesser degree, "Scientists arguing that global warming is primarily caused by natural processes". There are also many scientists in fields which do not, strictly speaking, study the mechanisms of climate change. As a biologist, for example, I may be able to understand the science behind climate change mechanics as explained by proper climatologists/earth scientists, but I really only feel qualified to speak to the effects that potential climate-change symptoms and after-effects might have on living things.

 

​And about this underdog mentality some skeptics like to take.. if you're strictly arguing on the merits of the science, you're keeping intellectual company with people like the Idsos. I know their work well; I actually attended uni in the US at Arizona State. Theirs are some of the most categorical (and absurd) denials of the findings of the majority of climatology. They've done a lot of work for the NIPCC which is funded by the Heartland Institute, they who worked with Philip Morris to deny the risks associated with secondhand smoke. It may be fun to pretend that the only money and influence is on the majority's side of the table, but as Mookster has intimated there is much more than science involved in this discussion and money is flowing freely on both sides.


Edited by SuperZan - 9/28/16 at 11:53pm
     
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post #110 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotagonist View Post

Hold tight to that one report out of 9,000 and that 2.9%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change#Opposing
False moderation of data is still relativist fallacy. What is true doesn't subject to perspective bias.
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