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[ScientificAmerican] Earth’s CO2 Passes the 400 PPM Threshold—Maybe Permanently - Page 14

post #131 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Yawn, don't care one bit. CO2 is statistically insignificant as a green house gas in comparison to the real driver of temperature: Good old water vapor. CO2 levels have been massively higher on this planet than they are now innumerable times, long before mammals let alone humans walked the Earth. None of this matters at all. The climate is not, nor will it ever be static. It will get much hotter than it is now and, yes, it will get much colder too. There is nothing we can do to keep this climate where we want it and destroying our economies by regressing the technologies that make modern life possible is pointless and needlessly destructive to our lifestyles.

I'll continue driving my car and bike as much as I like thank you very much.

Time is dispel some ignorance!

CO2 and Global Temperatures are causally correlated. It is not insignificant as a greenhouse gas.

Just because natural climate change happens, doesn't mean that man-made climate change is something we should ignore. It's happening and we can stop it by changing our habits.

Changing our habits doesn't mean "destroying our economies". In fact, the global reliance on fossil fuels has shown to be one of the biggest threats to the global economy. Renewable energy is a rapidly growing industry and employs millions of people as we as improving health in big cities which suffer from smog.
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post #132 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Yawn, don't care one bit. CO2 is statistically insignificant as a green house gas in comparison to the real driver of temperature: Good old water vapor. CO2 levels have been massively higher on this planet than they are now innumerable times, long before mammals let alone humans walked the Earth. None of this matters at all. The climate is not, nor will it ever be static. It will get much hotter than it is now and, yes, it will get much colder too. There is nothing we can do to keep this climate where we want it and destroying our economies by regressing the technologies that make modern life possible is pointless and needlessly destructive to our lifestyles.

I'll continue driving my car and bike as much as I like thank you very much.

You do realize that most of the "modern technologies that MADE life possible" are extremely inefficient and were only "modern" back in the day they were actually invented, its no longer valid to saying they still make life possible because that simply is no longer the case with the technologies, information, and materials we have today. We have technologies today that are tenfold better and cause almost zero impact regarding environmental deterioration but huge corps are forcing it down by holding technology patents and spending billions in lobbying to keep that technology to a minimum so they can continue to make money off of the "old". There is nothing more destructive to our lifestyles than our actual lifestyle being destructive while living on this planet.
post #133 of 189
I'm living in South Australia.. just a week ago in spring a major storm and cyclonic like winds took out our entire states power. This is a typically very hot area during spring and summer as it's mostly desert and yet, so far i've not seen a day over 20 celsius, last summer was very similar, storms every week, rarely a day over 20 celsius. I also lived in Victoria for a number of years and saw the increase of natural bush fires. For me it is not a matter of whether or not climate change is happening because I am living through the effects of it.. It's a matter of finding the causes and most ethical solutions.
Edited by dragneel - 10/4/16 at 4:47am
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post #134 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hueristic View Post

What people tend to forget in this argument is it doesn't matter why ti's caused, it is undeniable that it is happening! The only thing that matters is we have the ability to change it and we are not and for that we are fools that will suffer the consequences. The argument itself is a diversion from the reality.

So what are you doing spending time on the internet then? If you really believed in your cause you'd be living a hunter gatherer subsistence lifestyle with zero carbon impact. You'd be voting for people who would be willing to depopulate the earth of it's most invasive species.

Until people like you are willing to put your money where your mouth is and walk the walk instead of just yammering about it, the rest of us are going to be unwilling to put up with the incessant cash grabs big govt calls carbon credits and green pricing. Regions that have gone big into solar and wind power have seen their power prices increase obscenely compared to non insane regions, and meanwhile the rest of the world continues to build coal plants. "renewable" power isn't viable in it's current state as a primary power source.
post #135 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hueristic View Post

What people tend to forget in this argument is it doesn't matter why ti's caused, it is undeniable that it is happening! The only thing that matters is we have the ability to change it and we are not and for that we are fools that will suffer the consequences. The argument itself is a diversion from the reality.

So what are you doing spending time on the internet then? If you really believed in your cause you'd be living a hunter gatherer subsistence lifestyle with zero carbon impact. You'd be voting for people who would be willing to depopulate the earth of it's most invasive species.

Until people like you are willing to put your money where your mouth is and walk the walk instead of just yammering about it, the rest of us are going to be unwilling to put up with the incessant cash grabs big govt calls carbon credits and green pricing. Regions that have gone big into solar and wind power have seen their power prices increase obscenely compared to non insane regions, and meanwhile the rest of the world continues to build coal plants. "renewable" power isn't viable in it's current state as a primary power source.
That's a strawman.
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post #136 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

So what are you doing spending time on the internet then? If you really believed in your cause you'd be living a hunter gatherer subsistence lifestyle with zero carbon impact. You'd be voting for people who would be willing to depopulate the earth of it's most invasive species.

Until people like you are willing to put your money where your mouth is and walk the walk instead of just yammering about it, the rest of us are going to be unwilling to put up with the incessant cash grabs big govt calls carbon credits and green pricing. Regions that have gone big into solar and wind power have seen their power prices increase obscenely compared to non insane regions, and meanwhile the rest of the world continues to build coal plants. "renewable" power isn't viable in it's current state as a primary power source.

Looks like a lot of confirmation bias is coming from this reasoning without the correct understanding as to WHY "renewable" power isn't viable right now. It has nothing to do its technology or access to material for these technologies. It has everything to do with progression of these technologies being completely drowned under patent holding and lobbying from fossil fuel corps and those who benefit from it. Renewable energy without a doubt can be viable as a primary power source but won't happen until you have those with power actually backing it, and has nothing to do with its actual current technology level
post #137 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post

That's a strawman.

no, it's calling a hypocrite a hypocrite. Until you climate extremists walk the walk instead of just being full of hot air the rest of us aren't going to be willing to diminish our quality of life for your insane crusade. To eliminate human accelerated climate changed we will have to eliminate human impact on the environment. To do that we would have to kill 90% of our population and regress to hunter gatherer lifestyles. So put your money where your mouth is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drazah View Post

Looks like a lot of confirmation bias is coming from this reasoning without the correct understanding as to WHY "renewable" power isn't viable right now. It has nothing to do its technology or access to material for these technologies. It has everything to do with progression of these technologies being completely drowned under patent holding and lobbying from fossil fuel corps and those who benefit from it. Renewable energy without a doubt can be viable as a primary power source but won't happen until you have those with power actually backing it, and has nothing to do with its actual current technology level

Well I have reality as proof of my assertion that "renewable" energy isn't a viable primary power source while you just have conspiracy theories of evil overlords holding down renewables for their own ends. Prove your position. Better yet, show one place on earth that has gone big on renewable energy and hasn't seen their energy costs skyrocket. And please don't rely on having us believe the evil overlords control every country and every people over the entire planet. If renewables are so viable why haven't russia and china switched over and done away with their oil dependence? Neither of those countries pay more then lip service to western patents and western lobbying certainly holds no sway there.
post #138 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

no, it's calling a hypocrite a hypocrite. Until you climate extremists walk the walk instead of just being full of hot air the rest of us aren't going to be willing to diminish our quality of life for your insane crusade. To eliminate human accelerated climate changed we will have to eliminate human impact on the environment. To do that we would have to kill 90% of our population and regress to hunter gatherer lifestyles. So put your money where your mouth is.
Well I have reality as proof of my assertion that "renewable" energy isn't a viable primary power source while you just have conspiracy theories of evil overlords holding down renewables for their own ends. Prove your position. Better yet, show one place on earth that has gone big on renewable energy and hasn't seen their energy costs skyrocket. And please don't rely on having us believe the evil overlords control every country and every people over the entire planet. If renewables are so viable why haven't russia and china switched over and done away with their oil dependence? Neither of those countries pay more then lip service to western patents and western lobbying certainly holds no sway there.
You seem to be enjoying your benevolence. Don't assume we need to dump the technology in order to resolve the conflict. More forests and habitats needed for sure, but I suppose we can let the caps melt and sea levels rise if will bring back the subtropical deserts back to life.
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post #139 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

Well I have reality as proof of my assertion that "renewable" energy isn't a viable primary power source while you just have conspiracy theories of evil overlords holding down renewables for their own ends. Prove your position. Better yet, show one place on earth that has gone big on renewable energy and hasn't seen their energy costs skyrocket. And please don't rely on having us believe the evil overlords control every country and every people over the entire planet. If renewables are so viable why haven't russia and china switched over and done away with their oil dependence? Neither of those countries pay more then lip service to western patents and western lobbying certainly holds no sway there.

I appreciate you proving my statement on confirmation bias, using "reality" as your defense really explains for your overall common knowledge of things. I am not sure what you watched or who you listened to about things but no one really has "conspiracy theories of evil overlords holding down renewables for their own ends" except those fighting the invisible war. Its literally true information you can find, for yourself, at no charge, right now. Its not hard at all, unless you have literally been living under a rock. If you ever really researched this topic, the first thing you would read about is the huge patent encumbrance issue we have. This is nothing new.

China = ~25% of their total energy purely from renewable energy.... Thats really not bad when you look at USA where its half that. Also you are right Russia and China dont follow our patent laws but how can you be so naive to think that problems that happen in America cannot happen else where? It follows suit exactly like America, exactly like Russia, and exactly like China. The oligarchy in all these places have connections heavily within fossil fuels and is exactly why they keep it financially attractive by drowning out uses for renewable energies. The sole purpose for a Company is to exist and continue a service. In our current world, for either a company or a country, to actually exist you have to have money. If they can control these technologies and hinder the overall learning process so things don't advance, you get the exact outcome of the reality we live as to why the cost for renewable resources are so high. We without a doubt have the knowledge to improve our current renewable energy technologies but are literally held from doing so.
post #140 of 189
You shouldn't need proof of concept that renewable resources currently aren't feasible in their current state. Does anyone here understand EROEI? Energy Return Over Energy Invested? For example, developing countries simply cannot use advanced technologies, they do not have the resources (economy). The real problem behind that is, consumerism + capitalism has gotten to a point where there is no easy way to fix the economy from a backlash.

If you suddenly had a new fuel, one that can do everything that oil can do but it takes more energy to create than what you get from creating it.... How do you sustain the creation of such fuel? That is the current fusion problem at the moment. We can create power from fusion, unfortunately there is no sustainable fusion that can create a greater output than what's used to create it.

Currently there is NO other fuel out there like oil, which creates as much energy as we get from it. If we raise fuel prices, to discourage the usage of it, you are going to hinder poorer countries and regions. If you lower costs, you are going to increase consumption. Yes we might get more done, but at what cost? Right now it's not really a win win situation, because there isn't a single fuel out there that's as easy to manufacturer.

Our biggest hurdle for electric, is power storage. I guess we could go to steam powered cars that use electric heaters. Oh yeah, that sounds like a blast. Let me just get out my buggy from the past and hook up some horses too. Organic means of transportation decreases crop yields due to feed crops. Hmmm, so then what we use water? Cause that one went real well. We could do things like promote non-motor vehicles in areas where it';s easily accessible. Then again I do that, and most people I know look at me like I'm crazy. Because it's too hard to get on a bicycle and peddle 20 miles, yet I go on relaxation rides of up to 50 miles. Pooor poor people, I have no sympathy.

So really, this is going to be a problem until we stop wanting something else to do the work we could do. Gotta trim the yard? Get a push mower, better yet a non-motorized one. You want a quick trip to the store, get a bike you lazy sow. Thirsty? There's water. Hungry? Get food at a local grocer and learn to cook. Better yet, get a garden. Now I know this isn't feasible for all, but you know who you are that don't do it. That's the bottom line. Use stainless steel cooking utensils, that non-stick is bogus and uses? Ugh, it's the big picture and not just "big oil" or the "corporations" who are evil. It's the people, and that's the saddest part.
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