Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [ScientificAmerican] Earth’s CO2 Passes the 400 PPM Threshold—Maybe Permanently
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[ScientificAmerican] Earth’s CO2 Passes the 400 PPM Threshold—Maybe Permanently - Page 15

post #141 of 189
At the point where you concede that EROEI is a bad measure when faced with extinction you should wonder why you wrote so many words.
finally quiet
(20 items)
 
Peggy
(11 items)
 
Betty - WIP
(17 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-760 3.8 + turbo MSI P55-GD80 MSI GTX 970 Golden Edition 16GB Tactical LP 1600 c8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 128GB OCZ Agility 60GB Spinpoint F3 1TB Noctua NH-U12P SE2 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
2x NF-P12, CPU OS X 10.10, 8.1 Ultimate Asus VW246H Ergotron Neo-Flex 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CM Quick Fire Rapid EVGA Supernova G2 850W Silverstone FT-02W CM Spawn 
AudioAudioAudio
Sony TA-AX380 Sennheiser HD 280 KLH 911B 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i3-2125 GA-H61N USB3 HD3000 8GB Samsung Miracle RAM 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Kingston 60GB 3ware/LSI 9750-4i Hitachi 5k3000 2TB x4 RAID 5 Intel for now 
OSPowerCase
OS X 10.8.2 Corsiar CX430M Fractal Design Node 304 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i3-2100 ASUS P8H67-M PRO/CSM ASUS Passive GT 440 4GB Dominator 1600 c8 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
Hitachi 120GB 2.5" LG BR-RW CM GeminII S + NF-P12 2x NF-R8 - Intake 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
NF-B9 Windows 7 Sony KDL-46NX700 MK700 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Antec EA-650 Zalman HD160XT, Modded MK700 Yamaha RX-V373 
  hide details  
Reply
finally quiet
(20 items)
 
Peggy
(11 items)
 
Betty - WIP
(17 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-760 3.8 + turbo MSI P55-GD80 MSI GTX 970 Golden Edition 16GB Tactical LP 1600 c8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 128GB OCZ Agility 60GB Spinpoint F3 1TB Noctua NH-U12P SE2 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
2x NF-P12, CPU OS X 10.10, 8.1 Ultimate Asus VW246H Ergotron Neo-Flex 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CM Quick Fire Rapid EVGA Supernova G2 850W Silverstone FT-02W CM Spawn 
AudioAudioAudio
Sony TA-AX380 Sennheiser HD 280 KLH 911B 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i3-2125 GA-H61N USB3 HD3000 8GB Samsung Miracle RAM 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Kingston 60GB 3ware/LSI 9750-4i Hitachi 5k3000 2TB x4 RAID 5 Intel for now 
OSPowerCase
OS X 10.8.2 Corsiar CX430M Fractal Design Node 304 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i3-2100 ASUS P8H67-M PRO/CSM ASUS Passive GT 440 4GB Dominator 1600 c8 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
Hitachi 120GB 2.5" LG BR-RW CM GeminII S + NF-P12 2x NF-R8 - Intake 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
NF-B9 Windows 7 Sony KDL-46NX700 MK700 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Antec EA-650 Zalman HD160XT, Modded MK700 Yamaha RX-V373 
  hide details  
Reply
post #142 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post

That's a strawman.

no, it's calling a hypocrite a hypocrite. Until you climate extremists walk the walk instead of just being full of hot air the rest of us aren't going to be willing to diminish our quality of life for your insane crusade. To eliminate human accelerated climate changed we will have to eliminate human impact on the environment. To do that we would have to kill 90% of our population and regress to hunter gatherer lifestyles. So put your money where your mouth is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drazah View Post

Looks like a lot of confirmation bias is coming from this reasoning without the correct understanding as to WHY "renewable" power isn't viable right now. It has nothing to do its technology or access to material for these technologies. It has everything to do with progression of these technologies being completely drowned under patent holding and lobbying from fossil fuel corps and those who benefit from it. Renewable energy without a doubt can be viable as a primary power source but won't happen until you have those with power actually backing it, and has nothing to do with its actual current technology level

Well I have reality as proof of my assertion that "renewable" energy isn't a viable primary power source while you just have conspiracy theories of evil overlords holding down renewables for their own ends. Prove your position. Better yet, show one place on earth that has gone big on renewable energy and hasn't seen their energy costs skyrocket. And please don't rely on having us believe the evil overlords control every country and every people over the entire planet. If renewables are so viable why haven't russia and china switched over and done away with their oil dependence? Neither of those countries pay more then lip service to western patents and western lobbying certainly holds no sway there.
No, it's making a strawman because you have no tenable ground, so it's easier to tackle a fictitious point than reality.
BladeRunner v3.0
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-5930K @ 4.6GHz Core, 4.4GHz Cache ASUS X99 Sabertooth Sapphire R9 380 Dual-X OC G.Skill TridentZ 32GB DDR4 @ 13-15-13-33-1T 320... 
Hard DriveCoolingOSKeyboard
Samsung 850 Pro 512GB Noctua NH-D15S Windows 10 Home 64-bit Logitech G910 Orion Spark 
PowerCaseMouse
EVGA SuperNova 1000W T2 NZXT Phantom 820 Black Logitech G5 
  hide details  
Reply
BladeRunner v3.0
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-5930K @ 4.6GHz Core, 4.4GHz Cache ASUS X99 Sabertooth Sapphire R9 380 Dual-X OC G.Skill TridentZ 32GB DDR4 @ 13-15-13-33-1T 320... 
Hard DriveCoolingOSKeyboard
Samsung 850 Pro 512GB Noctua NH-D15S Windows 10 Home 64-bit Logitech G910 Orion Spark 
PowerCaseMouse
EVGA SuperNova 1000W T2 NZXT Phantom 820 Black Logitech G5 
  hide details  
Reply
post #143 of 189
People with agenda will push both sides of the issue. Generally I'm not worried. It takes hundreds to thousands of years for climate to substantially change. By then we're either an advanced civilization that can easily manage climate or other disasters would've wiped out humans. All these carbon tax and trading systems are just governments/corporations trying to get some money.
FairladyZ
(14 items)
 
Twin Turbo S2000
(13 items)
 
Skyline
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 2600k Asus P8Z68-M Pro MSI GTX970 Gaming 4G Corsair Ballistix Sport DDR3-1600 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital Black Hybrid 1TB WD10S12X Asus BW-12B1ST Thermaltake WATER2.0 Pro Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
MAG Innovision 22 inch LCD Samsung SyncMaster 2220wm Microsoft Sidewinder X4 Antec Earthwatts 750w 
CaseMouse
Cooler Master Elite 430 Microsoft Trackball Optical 1.0 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q6600 (@3.4ghz, lapped) ASRock P45TurboTwins2000 HD4850 (@800gpu/1087mem) Patriot PC2-6400 2x2GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD6400AALS/WD6400AAKS Emprex DVD±RW Win7 Ultimate x86/XP Pro(Dual Boot) MAG 22" WS LCD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
HP 5302H Multimedia Keyboard Antec Basiq 500w + Ultra Xconnect 500w Cooler Master Mystique 632S Microsoft Trackball Optical 1.0 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Athlon X2 4600+ (@2.75ghz, lapped) ECS KN1 Lite Sapphire X1950GT 512mb (@681/661) 2x1GB Mushikin DDR400 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Hitachi 80GB Maddog DVD-RW Windows XP Pro SP2 Mag 22" WS LCD LT2219WDB 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Hewlett Packard 5302H Apevia 500w Generic CompUSA Microsoft Trackball Optical 1.0 
Mouse Pad
None 
  hide details  
Reply
FairladyZ
(14 items)
 
Twin Turbo S2000
(13 items)
 
Skyline
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 2600k Asus P8Z68-M Pro MSI GTX970 Gaming 4G Corsair Ballistix Sport DDR3-1600 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital Black Hybrid 1TB WD10S12X Asus BW-12B1ST Thermaltake WATER2.0 Pro Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
MAG Innovision 22 inch LCD Samsung SyncMaster 2220wm Microsoft Sidewinder X4 Antec Earthwatts 750w 
CaseMouse
Cooler Master Elite 430 Microsoft Trackball Optical 1.0 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q6600 (@3.4ghz, lapped) ASRock P45TurboTwins2000 HD4850 (@800gpu/1087mem) Patriot PC2-6400 2x2GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD6400AALS/WD6400AAKS Emprex DVD±RW Win7 Ultimate x86/XP Pro(Dual Boot) MAG 22" WS LCD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
HP 5302H Multimedia Keyboard Antec Basiq 500w + Ultra Xconnect 500w Cooler Master Mystique 632S Microsoft Trackball Optical 1.0 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Athlon X2 4600+ (@2.75ghz, lapped) ECS KN1 Lite Sapphire X1950GT 512mb (@681/661) 2x1GB Mushikin DDR400 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Hitachi 80GB Maddog DVD-RW Windows XP Pro SP2 Mag 22" WS LCD LT2219WDB 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Hewlett Packard 5302H Apevia 500w Generic CompUSA Microsoft Trackball Optical 1.0 
Mouse Pad
None 
  hide details  
Reply
post #144 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post

That's a strawman.

Correct, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awdrifter View Post

People with agenda will push both sides of the issue. Generally I'm not worried. It takes hundreds to thousands of years for climate to substantially change. By then we're either an advanced civilization that can easily manage climate or other disasters would've wiped out humans. All these carbon tax and trading systems are just governments/corporations trying to get some money.

My agenda is seeing the world in better shape than I found it when I leave, unfortunately many don't care about doing the latter even when they are handing it off to their offspring. It boggles my mind how they can be so selfishly myopic.
post #145 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by awdrifter View Post

People with agenda will push both sides of the issue. Generally I'm not worried. It takes hundreds to thousands of years for climate to substantially change. By then we're either an advanced civilization that can easily manage climate or other disasters would've wiped out humans. All these carbon tax and trading systems are just governments/corporations trying to get some money.

Check out some ice core data graphs. The climate can change in a few decades the natural way.
But you are right about the motives behind the anti carbon dioxide movement. There's a lot of money in corporations trying to avoid regulations. It's a shame so many fall for second hand assurances and innuendo stuff. Since increased co2 as been shown to increase and strengthen life, what part of nature or green or earth are they trying to help by keeping and ingredient (that is as important to life as oxygen is to fire) to a minimum? The rocks?
Their crazy scare scenarios =/= +2 or 3c. I would like +2 or 3c here in the temperate zone tongue.gif
post #146 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

At the point where you concede that EROEI is a bad measure when faced with extinction you should wonder why you wrote so many words.

The chicken little'ing done by climate extremists also kinda kills the debate. How do you argue a position with someone who thinks we're going to go extinct because of a warming earth?
post #147 of 189
...as if it weren't difficult to argue with someone who denies scientific consensus?

Don't get me wrong - I don't know enough about climate change to make predictions, but I do know what the consensus of the vast majority of science is, and that it's not good. Working around academics it is more apparent, but I know that I didn't need that privilege to observe the growing consensus around a 40-some-odd year campaign by scientists (whether it started from quackery or not). Heck, I could just read this wikipedia article/liberal propaganda and weigh the pros and cons myself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_global_warming

I'm not really interested in developing the patience to argue on a computer forum about what that consensus surrounding causes and effects of global warming is or isn't, and certainly not whether it exists or not. Frankly I'm just happy no one here has the authority to say or do anything about those opinions outside of this forum and their immediate social circles.
Edited by claes - 10/4/16 at 8:13pm
finally quiet
(20 items)
 
Peggy
(11 items)
 
Betty - WIP
(17 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-760 3.8 + turbo MSI P55-GD80 MSI GTX 970 Golden Edition 16GB Tactical LP 1600 c8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 128GB OCZ Agility 60GB Spinpoint F3 1TB Noctua NH-U12P SE2 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
2x NF-P12, CPU OS X 10.10, 8.1 Ultimate Asus VW246H Ergotron Neo-Flex 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CM Quick Fire Rapid EVGA Supernova G2 850W Silverstone FT-02W CM Spawn 
AudioAudioAudio
Sony TA-AX380 Sennheiser HD 280 KLH 911B 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i3-2125 GA-H61N USB3 HD3000 8GB Samsung Miracle RAM 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Kingston 60GB 3ware/LSI 9750-4i Hitachi 5k3000 2TB x4 RAID 5 Intel for now 
OSPowerCase
OS X 10.8.2 Corsiar CX430M Fractal Design Node 304 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i3-2100 ASUS P8H67-M PRO/CSM ASUS Passive GT 440 4GB Dominator 1600 c8 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
Hitachi 120GB 2.5" LG BR-RW CM GeminII S + NF-P12 2x NF-R8 - Intake 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
NF-B9 Windows 7 Sony KDL-46NX700 MK700 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Antec EA-650 Zalman HD160XT, Modded MK700 Yamaha RX-V373 
  hide details  
Reply
finally quiet
(20 items)
 
Peggy
(11 items)
 
Betty - WIP
(17 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-760 3.8 + turbo MSI P55-GD80 MSI GTX 970 Golden Edition 16GB Tactical LP 1600 c8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 128GB OCZ Agility 60GB Spinpoint F3 1TB Noctua NH-U12P SE2 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
2x NF-P12, CPU OS X 10.10, 8.1 Ultimate Asus VW246H Ergotron Neo-Flex 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CM Quick Fire Rapid EVGA Supernova G2 850W Silverstone FT-02W CM Spawn 
AudioAudioAudio
Sony TA-AX380 Sennheiser HD 280 KLH 911B 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i3-2125 GA-H61N USB3 HD3000 8GB Samsung Miracle RAM 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Kingston 60GB 3ware/LSI 9750-4i Hitachi 5k3000 2TB x4 RAID 5 Intel for now 
OSPowerCase
OS X 10.8.2 Corsiar CX430M Fractal Design Node 304 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i3-2100 ASUS P8H67-M PRO/CSM ASUS Passive GT 440 4GB Dominator 1600 c8 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
Hitachi 120GB 2.5" LG BR-RW CM GeminII S + NF-P12 2x NF-R8 - Intake 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
NF-B9 Windows 7 Sony KDL-46NX700 MK700 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Antec EA-650 Zalman HD160XT, Modded MK700 Yamaha RX-V373 
  hide details  
Reply
post #148 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post

No, it's making a strawman because you have no tenable ground, so it's easier to tackle a fictitious point than reality.

What's fictitious about what he said? Rabid environmentalists believe in and preach exactly the kinds of things he was talking about, yet few of them are willing to throw away the lifestyle they currently have (instead insisting others do so). Its not a strawman if its actually true, and its the rabid environmentalist movement that is untenable, not those of us who just want to continue to enjoy our modern lifestyles (without having to pay 5 times the energy prices we have become accustomed to...

And on another note, I've noticed a dramatic uptick in the usage of these stupid "fallacies of debate" on the internet these days (its really becoming pervasive) and its getting old. Basically, somebody makes a point you don't like or don't have an answer for and you immediately start reciting these fallacies as though that in and of itself immediately ends all debate and makes you the winner. "That's a strawman!" That's ad hominem!" "That's slippery slope!" Yes, I have the internet and have heard of all of these too, you are not special or enlightened. Just blurting out the fallacies when not even warranted) does not make you smart or the winner of an argument. It just means you've heard of Google.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

The chicken little'ing done by climate extremists also kinda kills the debate. How do you argue a position with someone who thinks we're going to go extinct because of a warming earth?

Al Gore and his famous movie claimed the Earth would be burning right now (he gave us 10 years from 2006 and last I checked, things are still just fine). Its just the same old crap every time where grandiose and dire predictions keep being made and eventually disproven, yet they immediately move the goal posts and make a new ludicrous prediction that also won't come true. Their act is tired and people are finally starting to catch on that climate change models are alarmist propaganda and based on junk science, nothing more.
Edited by Majin SSJ Eric - 10/4/16 at 8:47pm
post #149 of 189
It actually is both a strawman and a red herring to suggest that the only solution enviornmentalists offer are primitivist ones. The vast majority of solutions put forth post the 1980s have to do with using technology that exists to replace fossil fuels coupled with jobs programs to build those technologies. Heck, this it the position of any contemporary moderate politician on the issue, never mind left or right, and certainly not extremist...
finally quiet
(20 items)
 
Peggy
(11 items)
 
Betty - WIP
(17 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-760 3.8 + turbo MSI P55-GD80 MSI GTX 970 Golden Edition 16GB Tactical LP 1600 c8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 128GB OCZ Agility 60GB Spinpoint F3 1TB Noctua NH-U12P SE2 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
2x NF-P12, CPU OS X 10.10, 8.1 Ultimate Asus VW246H Ergotron Neo-Flex 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CM Quick Fire Rapid EVGA Supernova G2 850W Silverstone FT-02W CM Spawn 
AudioAudioAudio
Sony TA-AX380 Sennheiser HD 280 KLH 911B 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i3-2125 GA-H61N USB3 HD3000 8GB Samsung Miracle RAM 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Kingston 60GB 3ware/LSI 9750-4i Hitachi 5k3000 2TB x4 RAID 5 Intel for now 
OSPowerCase
OS X 10.8.2 Corsiar CX430M Fractal Design Node 304 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i3-2100 ASUS P8H67-M PRO/CSM ASUS Passive GT 440 4GB Dominator 1600 c8 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
Hitachi 120GB 2.5" LG BR-RW CM GeminII S + NF-P12 2x NF-R8 - Intake 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
NF-B9 Windows 7 Sony KDL-46NX700 MK700 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Antec EA-650 Zalman HD160XT, Modded MK700 Yamaha RX-V373 
  hide details  
Reply
finally quiet
(20 items)
 
Peggy
(11 items)
 
Betty - WIP
(17 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-760 3.8 + turbo MSI P55-GD80 MSI GTX 970 Golden Edition 16GB Tactical LP 1600 c8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 128GB OCZ Agility 60GB Spinpoint F3 1TB Noctua NH-U12P SE2 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
2x NF-P12, CPU OS X 10.10, 8.1 Ultimate Asus VW246H Ergotron Neo-Flex 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CM Quick Fire Rapid EVGA Supernova G2 850W Silverstone FT-02W CM Spawn 
AudioAudioAudio
Sony TA-AX380 Sennheiser HD 280 KLH 911B 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i3-2125 GA-H61N USB3 HD3000 8GB Samsung Miracle RAM 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Kingston 60GB 3ware/LSI 9750-4i Hitachi 5k3000 2TB x4 RAID 5 Intel for now 
OSPowerCase
OS X 10.8.2 Corsiar CX430M Fractal Design Node 304 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i3-2100 ASUS P8H67-M PRO/CSM ASUS Passive GT 440 4GB Dominator 1600 c8 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
Hitachi 120GB 2.5" LG BR-RW CM GeminII S + NF-P12 2x NF-R8 - Intake 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
NF-B9 Windows 7 Sony KDL-46NX700 MK700 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Antec EA-650 Zalman HD160XT, Modded MK700 Yamaha RX-V373 
  hide details  
Reply
post #150 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

It actually is both a strawman and a red herring to suggest that the only solution enviornmentalists offer are primitivist ones. The vast majority of solutions put forth post the 1980s have to do with using technology that exists to replace fossil fuels coupled with jobs programs to build those technologies. Heck, this it the position of any contemporary moderate politician on the issue, never mind left or right, and certainly not extremist...

The vast majority of these supposed "solutions" really are the same old leftist pro-government crap that has been being pedaled for decades, just under different names. The current green movement is really just the old red movement of the 60's in which freedom and individual prosperity is the "problem" while bigger and more powerful government is always the solution. These are the same people with the same old tired ideas, its just that they realized people's love for nature and animals was an easy target so they altered their strategy accordingly.

And the fact is that there IS no technology that can replace fossil fuels today, or anytime remotely soon, so trying to force people to use stuff that flat out doesn't work punitively is not going to solve anything other than to destroy the one industry in energy that we all absolutely depend on for our modern lives. Nothing hard to understand here, renewable and green energy is a fantasy that cannot replace oil. CANNOT, period.
Edited by Majin SSJ Eric - 10/4/16 at 8:58pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Technology and Science News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [ScientificAmerican] Earth’s CO2 Passes the 400 PPM Threshold—Maybe Permanently