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[ScientificAmerican] Earth’s CO2 Passes the 400 PPM Threshold—Maybe Permanently - Page 10

post #91 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletBait View Post

@ILoveHighDPI

I was going to say a lot of it isn't 'old growth' though, which is pointed out in the article, so my statement on that is moot.

My next point would be a the increase doesn't cover what was already lost. Besides most of that occuring in a single decade, 1950 after total cropland stabilized in 1920 with most of the gains and stability in the north. There's been a steady downward trend of NA forest acreage since the 60s to the late 90s where cropland was converted again to 'new growth,' and that trend has reversed again with more forest lost then gained. The last study predicted another 3% reduction in total forest and continued loss of 'old growth.'



http://www.fs.fed.us/research/sustain/national-report.php

What's the problem with cutting down old trees?

Clear cutting is a problem, but I've seen pictures of quarter sections of land that went from "clear" to "totally forest again" in 25 years. You might want to wait another 25 years before harvesting them, but as long as you have enough trees surrounding a given space and a lack of grazing animals (and sometimes even with grazing animals) the forest grows at a pretty astounding rate.
Clearcutting is definitely bad, and Tropical Rainforests definitely need to be protected (I'm mostly thinking of the small remaining populations of large cats), and maybe local forest management practices need to be adjusted by 4% to put things back into an upward trend, but trees are actually pretty aggressive organisms.
post #92 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post


Which is why your argument is equally baseless.

Well, marvel at your own magnificence I guess. Humans are infallible. Every scientific idea ever has been right, until it was wrong.
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post #93 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post

What's the problem with cutting down old trees?

Clear cutting is a problem, but I've seen pictures of quarter sections of land that went from "clear" to "totally forest again" in 25 years. You might want to wait another 25 years before harvesting them, but as long as you have enough trees surrounding a given space and a lack of grazing animals (and sometimes even with grazing animals) the forest grows at a pretty astounding rate.
Clearcutting is definitely bad, and Tropical Rainforests definitely need to be protected (I'm mostly thinking of the small remaining populations of large cats), and maybe local forest management practices need to be adjusted by 4% to put things back into an upward trend, but trees are actually pretty aggressive organisms.

I will take this one though since we've been fairly cordial with each other so far...

If you're talking about controlled harvesting and prescribed burns, I can agree with that. The problem is when you start wholesale lots at a time, not small lots, I'm talking thousands of contiguous acres at a time. That's more of a slow kill to wildlife in the forest that doesn't adapt as fast and move to more suitable forest that isn't currently being logged. Prescribed burns are also very helpful to clear flammable underbrush and renew the cycle, otherwise you can end up with the scenario that happened in Canada last year with massive forest fires that burned 2.5 million acres in Saskatchewan alone.

Granted, that has nothing to do with CO2/greenhouse (unless you count the massive forest fire and loss of forest) specifically, but it does have an ecology knock on effect as species disappear that goes all the way up and down the local food chain.
Edited by BulletBait - 9/28/16 at 8:10pm
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post #94 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by LancerVI View Post

Humans are infallible.

Obviously not, or we wouldn't have people in this thread habitually mistaking fringe sensationalist tripe for scientific consensus and vice versa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LancerVI View Post

Every scientific idea ever has been right, until it was wrong.

Quite the opposite actually. That's why the scientific method exists. You start with a speculative supposition, refine it into a hypothesis that makes sense, then after you've tested the snot out of that hypothesis and not observed anything that contradicts it, you have a theory...which is where anthropogenic climate change is now. This is the consensus of 97%+ of scientists in relevant fields and it took more than half a century to get here.
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post #95 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

This is the consensus of 97%+ of scientists in relevant fields and it took more than half a century to get here.

Yeah, no. There is no consensus on climate change/global warming as of yet. These are just a few of the 'deniers' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming
post #96 of 189
So, I've been doing some algorithmic research on cosmic rays. The earth is slowly being cooked by a microwave dish to cook us for our reptilian overlords. No wonder people start to get saggy skin as they age!

rolleyes.gif
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post #97 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

Yeah, no. There is no consensus on climate change/global warming as of yet. These are just a few of the 'deniers' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Global_warming#Scientific_consensus

post #98 of 189
Quote:

That particular wiki is known for a certain political bias. All I did was post a list of qualified scientists.
post #99 of 189
The climate is changing. It is demonstrated through scientific observation. It has done this many many times over. For example, the Sahara used to be a lush paradise. You can travel through the mountains and see the layers of different climates and ecosystems over the years. We live on a rock spinning off center around a ball of fire...things are going to continue to change. Ecosystem change has been fatal to humans in the past. So the question isn't if the climate is going to change or if it is going to be bad for us. The question is can we do anything to slow/reverse the hardship it will cause us? And if we can, will we?
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post #100 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

That particular wiki is known for a certain political bias. All I did was post a list of qualified scientists.
You posted a list of a handful of scientists, only about a quarter of whom on that page even complete agree with you. As correctly pointed out by the page I linked, there is no legitimate scientific organization that agrees with your nonsense.

You have a list of about 40 scientists there. Can you please explain how that proves there is no consensus? Here's what you're up against:

National Academy of Sciences (NAS)
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS)
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
The Royal Society of the UK (RS)
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS)
UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
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