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[SpaceX] Making humans a multiplanetary species - Page 5

post #41 of 93
Dang it @Blameless, I wanted to break into my probability song and dance number. You stole my thunder. frown.gif
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post #42 of 93
All Elon has to do is show that you can make a profit by mining Mars. Fortune 500 companies would be all over it.
Quote:
Large areas of Mars contain troughs, called fossa, which are classified as grabens by geologists. They stretch thousands of miles out from volcanoes.[14] It is believed that dikes helped with the formation of grabens.[15][16][17] Many, maybe most, of the grabens had dikes under them. One would expect dikes and other igneous intrusions on Mars because geologists believe that the amount of liquid rock that moved under the ground is more than what we see on the top in the form of volcanoes and lava flows.[18] On Earth, vast volcanic landscapes are called "large Igneous Provinces" (LIP's); such places are sources of nickel, copper, titanium, iron, platinum, palladium, and chromium.[2][19] Mars's Tharsis region, which contains a group of giant volcanoes, is considered to be an LIP.

How much has been invested in oil in the last 100 years?
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post #43 of 93
50 to 150 yrs
that's up to 3 lifetimes to be on the waiting list

it gives Elon Musk Legacy to get it right

and

make Asa Butterfield 'The Space Between Us' come true
Finding Love Across Planets
post #44 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDalton10 View Post

All Elon has to do is show that you can make a profit by mining Mars. Fortune 500 companies would be all over it.
How much has been invested in oil in the last 100 years?

Has Doom taught you nothing? biggrin.gif
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post #45 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

All of which still involve resource exploitation. And you're right, there's no carbon involved, but you're still burning the above. How is this 'green'?

You only specified fossil fuels, not "green."

Although one of those rockets will produce the most common greenhouse gas there is: O2 (l) + 2H2 (l) -> 2H2O (g)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

But you know what I meant, read the sentence again and notice the terms used.

The terms used were radioactive, desert, and wasteland. Unless there is a nuclear war, radioactive isn't applicable. The surface is 70% water, so desert is similarly inappropriate. Wasteland might be appropriate, but certainly not now.
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post #46 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDalton10 View Post

All Elon has to do is show that you can make a profit by mining Mars.

Can we make a profit by mining Mars?

Even if Mars was a solid ball of pure gold, we would need dramatically more efficient rockets to make it cost effective to bring the material back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Unless there is a nuclear war, radioactive isn't applicable.

Depends on how radioactive something has to be to be problematic. The world is covered with a large quantity of radioactive isotopes, mostly from from decades of nuclear testing (more than 500 atmospheric tests and nearly 1500 underground ones), to the point that sensitive instrumentation and sensors some times had to be made of salvaged low-background steel made before 1945.

I used to be able to sell old railroad track for almost as much as copper plumbing in some places, but declining isotope levels and better air filtration has cut into that.

Of course, these levels are way below what is likely to constitute a health risk, unless you actually live on test site.
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post #47 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Can we make a profit by mining Mars?

Even if Mars was a solid ball of pure gold, we would need dramatically more efficient rockets to make it cost effective to bring the material back.
Depends on how radioactive something has to be to be problematic. The world is covered with a large quantity of radioactive isotopes, mostly from from decades of nuclear testing (more than 500 atmospheric tests and nearly 1500 underground ones), to the point that sensitive instrumentation and sensors some times had to be made of salvaged low-background steel made before 1945.

I used to be able to sell old railroad track for almost as much as copper plumbing in some places, but declining isotope levels and better air filtration has cut into that.

Of course, these levels are way below what is likely to constitute a health risk, unless you actually live on test site.

Did you watch the presentation. 200,000 dollars per person including some luggage is what they are aiming for. So lets say thats 180lbs for 200k. Platinum is 1030 dollars a troy oz. so 1030 * 14.8 * 180 = 2,743,920.
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post #48 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

But you know what I meant, read the sentence again and notice the terms used.

The terms used were radioactive, desert, and wasteland. Unless there is a nuclear war, radioactive isn't applicable. The surface is 70% water, so desert is similarly inappropriate. Wasteland might be appropriate, but certainly not now.


I was referencing to the tons of contaminated water from Fukushima in the post I was replying to, and as Blameless said, there is of course more of that around the planet.

But other than that, you are looking at the wrong terms, I thought I had made it clear in the second post what those terms were, but apparently not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

So, let's see, we are turning this planet into a radioactive desert wasteland with ultimately little to no living conditions, so instead of trying to fix it by spending lots of money on solutions to the problems, let's instead spend lots of money on travelling through radiation, heading towards a deserted planet that has little to no living conditions.

It's a bit ironic.

But then again, we went to the moon first and only found the Titanic at the bottom of the Atlantic because a guy insisted he got the funds to do it as an aside to a mission for the US government.

As I said, it's an ongoing process, long term. Read it as you will (and the fact that you omitted the second sentence (see below) from that paragraph is telling of how you want to read it), but I've already explained what I meant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Wait what? We live in a radioactive wasteland now?

Have you confused Fallout for real life or have I missed a recent nuclear war? wink.gif

It's hard for me to confuse it with that game franchise since I never played it.

But you know what I meant, read the sentence again and notice the terms used. It's a long term thing, just as the plan for setting up a colony in Mars is.

Edited by tpi2007 - 9/29/16 at 3:03pm
 
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post #49 of 93
I see some cultural problems in this fantastical future.

Lets imagine that Elon gets it right and we are able to colonize to the point where there are now "available homesteads" on this futuristic world (maybe mars). Who will be the eligible to go?
Certainly the highest bidders will be the first to leave, and become space dwellers in a utopian environment (hopefully if all went right).

If it was successful, it wouldn't take long before all the big-money families left Earth for the Utopia. We already, have people who believe (doesn't matter if its true or not) they are eternally discriminated against, and this will just enrage them more. It would take a L O N G time for those Utopia's to be self sufficient, so they will dependent on resupply of certain Earth items over time.

Thus we have widened the gap between workers and elite. The workers stay in normal gravity and ever increasingly polluted environment and the elite continue to demand supplies from them.

This cannot be good, but I don't fault science, we are the problem.
post #50 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

I was referencing to the tons of contaminated water from Fukushima in the post I was replying to, and as Blameless said, there is of course more of that around the planet.

He was also saying you're making mountains out of molehills with Fukushima, at least if you don't live in Japan.

As we used to say on the boat (SSN), 'Dilution is the solution to pollution.' (For the record, discharges at sea are limited and total fleet discharge is <0.4Cu/yr, so don't go freaking out over that as well) Which roughly translates into, there's so much freaking water in the ocean, the effects will be minimal. You should only worry as a health hazard if you're within 10NM of the zone, it'll be within US Federal (don't know Japan's) civilian limits at 10-50NM, it'll be around background at 50-100NM, >100NM will be negligible from background.

Of course that is assuming several factors, such as coolant being at a specific radioactivity level for each isotope. (ie within US federal limits, which it should be.)

If you were to dump coolant from the plant into the ocean until all the U-238 and nuclear waste isotopes decayed, you wouldn't raise ocean background levels outside that 100NM by measurable effect.

DOE Study of USN (Discharges at Sea Page 7)
Edited by BulletBait - 9/29/16 at 3:26pm
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