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[Steam] Steam Hardware and Software Survey September 2016 - Page 4

post #31 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVLux View Post

Then why would you mention mining in that post? Steam hardware Surveys has nothing to do with mining O_o

I want you to take a deep breath and understand miners buy AMD GPUs to mine digital cryptocurrencies. Many of these miners are not on Steam so the AMD cards they have do not show up on Steam. The point people are making is that AMD's cards are being purchased less by gamers who use steam and more by miners who do not use steam. After that deep breath I hope you better understand mining is at least somewhat related to the results.
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post #32 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robenger View Post

Didn't you just contradict yourself?
How can you claim that AMD has lower marketshare when you're also claiming miners have bought all the cards? thinking.gif

It's pretty clear-cut what he's trying to say, miners buying 10 cards each is 10 less gamers who can get their hands on one.

Personally, i don't think mining has much to do with it.. Nvidia are just the superior brand these days, plain and simple. AMD cards still have a massive stigma when it comes to heat and drivers/problems, releasing cards like the Fury X and 480 that get within +-10% of the competition is nowhere near good enough, in order to get people to feel comfortable switching from Nvidia (it's never easy getting consumers to change brands in anything) AMD have to release cards that dominate them, and they'll have to do it more than once..

The 480 and Fury X are by no means bad hardware, they're just not good enough to eat into Nvidias marketshare, i hope AMD step up with Vega or it's going to suck for all of us..

$1999 Titans incoming.. rolleyes.gif
post #33 of 148
It's still funny that people think Steam hardware survey is an adequate way to figure out GPU market share... Think of all the e-sports games like Dota 2, LoL, SC II, then all the MMO players like Eve, WoW, GW2, etc. All of those use their own launchers that steam wouldn't capture if they never open steam.

On the flip side, I just installed steam on 3 VM's and my laptop; the only one that got a Steam survey was my old Hp 4510s that has probably done a half-dozen surveys in it's life time between all the Windows re-installs on failed hard drives over the years.
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post #34 of 148
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robenger View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLAWNOOB View Post

Miners buy up the 480s. Prices are higher than MSRP. Gamer cant get reasonably priced cards.

If you compare 480 to 1060, 1060 has much more marketshare even though its released later.

Didn't you just contradict yourself?
How can you claim that AMD has lower marketshare when you're also claiming miners have bought all the cards? thinking.gif

AMD has lower than excepted market share amongst gamers because of the mining. The miners are good for AMD short term, but when mining crashes again there will be a lot of cheap cards. People are less likely to pay full price for new cards when they can get used 480s for $120 next year.

nVidia was alright at mining a month or two ago but not anymore.

What I posted is not contradictory even when taken out of context. If there are less 480s produced, then even if all cards are bought, it can still have less marketshare.
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post #35 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by axipher View Post

It's still funny that people think Steam hardware survey is an adequate way to figure out GPU market share... Think of all the e-sports games like Dota 2, LoL, SC II, then all the MMO players like Eve, WoW, GW2, etc. All of those use their own launchers that steam wouldn't capture if they never open steam.

On the flip side, I just installed steam on 3 VM's and my laptop; the only one that got a Steam survey was my old Hp 4510s that has probably done a half-dozen surveys in it's life time between all the Windows re-installs on failed hard drives over the years.

Huh? DOTA2 requires Steam.
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post #36 of 148
What's wrong with using Steam surveys... it's a pretty good metric, not perfect but its not like people herald it as the "gold standard" for market share analysis.
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post #37 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by mandrake88 View Post

why would you think that is bad for AMD? Do you really expect that in 3 months AMD will re-gain the marketshare that NVIDIA has been builiding for the last 10 years? AMD marketshare is growing, but you can't expect a completed shift with AMD selling more than NVIDIA in such a short period of time.

Even if AMD manage to release better cards than NVIDIA, it will take them several years and several generations of GPUs to close the gap.

i don't know man, nvidia has crippled amd to the point of no return from the way i look at it

while amd is trying to do that, nvidia is also trying,

the only new gen card on that list is the rx 480 meanwhile you can see the 1080, 1070 and 1060 up there and you got the 1050 and 1080 ti coming soon

it's like the same thing with amd's zen, it's not like intel isn't working on their answer for zen

amd is forever going to be playing catch up
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post #38 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master__Shake View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

I was finally asked to take the Steam hardware survey last week. It only took eleven years! smile.gif

and this is why the steam hardware survey is completely useless.

i still haven't taken part in it. it's only been 8 years.

here's how to take it.
Quote:
Well it pops up randomly but you can also just click Run from your OS (Start button) and copy/paste the following and press enter. Both steam://takesurvey/1/ and steam://takesurvey/2/

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/620712364040236034/


It's useless because YOU haven't yet taken part in it?

That's not how samples work. There aren't predestined people that have to be asked for the survey to be valid.


Also, the first link you quoted is for a Dota 2 survey, the second for a CS:GO survey. Try for yourself, it has nothing to do with the monthly survey in the OP.
 
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post #39 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

That's not how samples work. There aren't predestined people that have to be asked for the survey to be valid.

What about really important people? Or people who think they are really important? tongue.gif

From what I gather they survey ~1/12th of the user base every month, meaning you should get the option to take it roughly once a year on average. I can't remember last time I took it, but it was a pop-up asking if I consented.
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post #40 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by GorillaSceptre View Post

It's pretty clear-cut what he's trying to say, miners buying 10 cards each is 10 less gamers who can get their hands on one.

Personally, i don't think mining has much to do with it.. Nvidia are just the superior brand these days, plain and simple. AMD cards still have a massive stigma when it comes to heat and drivers/problems, releasing cards like the Fury X and 480 that get within +-10% of the competition is nowhere near good enough, in order to get people to feel comfortable switching from Nvidia (it's never easy getting consumers to change brands in anything) AMD have to release cards that dominate them, and they'll have to do it more than once..

The 480 and Fury X are by no means bad hardware, they're just not good enough to eat into Nvidias marketshare, i hope AMD step up with Vega or it's going to suck for all of us..

$1999 Titans incoming.. rolleyes.gif

I agree with this.

Steam isn't the best way to extrapolate information, when you do, you have to make and state certain assumption and back that up with other information.

Combined with the steam results, and another piece of information, there is enough evidence to suggest mining has had a profound effect on prices for AMD cards and responsible for their great sales recently.

As gorillasceptre has said, AMD cards are not high performing enough to sell well to the point where they sell for more than Nvidia cards. AMD cards sell when when they are either the superior value to Nvidia cards or offer outright superior performance(not just a couple games, but across the board) while being priced the same or less. When they sell for the same cost and Nvidia's cards perform better, AMD will lose marketshare. The gtx 6xx series showed this and the 5xx series showed this as well. Heck even the lousy gtx 4xx series when it became available was good enough to stop Nvidia from losing marketshare. The brand advantage is huge.

There are instances where this isn't true but this relates to the mining market. And this is what we are likely seeing with Polaris and Pascal. Lets use the 290x vs gtx 780 ti as a reference case, there are starting similarities with polaris vs pascal. At the time, nvidia cards were the better performing cards. AMD cards sold well, and they sold at above their MSRP. None of this extra markup goes to AMD and goes to sellers. What this does is it assist Nvidia into selling their cards a full MSRP.

As we can tell from Nvidia's growing and exceeding financial expectations during quarterly reports, they were also having record revenue and sales number. What this means is AMD wasn't particularly taking sales away from Nvidia in the gaming market. AMD with mining just expanded into a new market, which didn't put any pressure on Nvidia cards. In fact, the high street price from mining aided Nvidia sell more cards. This lead to a temporary short term gain for AMD and both a short term and a long term gain for Nvidia.

Why is it temporary? It's because the mining market has a built in expiry date for videocards. The increasing difficulty and the eventual addition of asics make it eventually unprofitable for people to mine with videocards. What this means is these cards eventually become useless for miners.

These cards eventually get sold on the used market and add a huge over supply of cheap AMD cards. You see a big drop in AMD sales as a result and AMD is forced to sell their cards at a low price. This doesn't effect Nvidia too much because they already have banner quarters and captured a huge portion of the gaming market prior to AMD cards starting selling at their MSRP. Also because people are more likely to brand loyal to Nvidia, they will either wait for Nvidia's next card if they didn't buy a gtx 1060 or rx480. And even if they feel sales are affected, Nvidia cards are cheaper to make and they can follow AMD pricing if they choose to. Back to AMD, long term it's bad for AMD.

The problem is that because it a used card and miners already made their money, they will sell for lower prices than even the lowest retail. Used cards don't count towards AMD's revenue, and depending on what goes wrong with the card(amd may be partially responsible for a failing GPU chip), AMD may be responsible for some of the RMA cost. Also used pricing can actually go below AMD's cost and this creates a situation where there isn't a good financial outcome regardless of what AMD picks.

Thus overall, mining is good for AMD in the short term but bad for them in the long term. The potential for this situation can be disastrous for AMD with Polaris.

Hawaii is a much more competitive product vs gk100 than Polaris. It was a much better value and the price to performance was killer, particularly with the r9 290. AMD's chip was also potentially and likely cheaper to make which gave Hawaii more flexibility with pricing. The higher MSRP in this range also gave more flexibility to AMD when the eventual price drops do happen.

Polaris doesn't offer the pricing flexibility and the gtx 1060 cheaper BOM will allow Nvidia to counter AMD no matter what they decide to do.
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