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[Steam] Steam Hardware and Software Survey September 2016 - Page 5

post #41 of 148
Wondering how many people opt out. And unless I'm blind, I'm seeing nothing about the sample size, either. Publishing both of these would lend more credibility to Valve's surveys.
post #42 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

What about really important people? Or people who think they are really important? tongue.gif

From what I gather they survey ~1/12th of the user base every month, meaning you should get the option to take it roughly once a year on average. I can't remember last time I took it, but it was a pop-up asking if I consented.



They should focus all their Zen energy (AMD pun not intended) until Lord Gaben himself descends from Valve's headquarters and hands them a physical survey on a golden Half-Life 3 themed frame. tongue.gif

Exactly, on average. People tend to forget what that means. Some people may go years without seeing it, others will see it more regularly. It's like the lottery. And just like the lottery, if you don't play, you can't win. I don't know for how many days they run the survey each month but I suppose that they aren't constantly running it, so it may well be that those who only start Steam on demand (instead of having it start with the OS), may not even see it if they have other things to do on a given week than play games and thus don't start Steam.
 
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post #43 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC'ing Noob View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarble View Post

Still no real 4k traction. I guess most people that have a 4k screen have a secondary monitor as well.
Won't happen until 4K displays and TV's come down in price and there are more 4K content out there. Vast majority of people have zero reason to move on from 1080p currently.
Also the simple fact that midrange hardware isn't anywhere near powerful enough to drive 4k@60fps in AAA games.

There's a long list of reasons why 4k adoption won't overtake 1080p for a very, very long time to come.
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post #44 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by axipher View Post

It's still funny that people think Steam hardware survey is an adequate way to figure out GPU market share... Think of all the e-sports games like Dota 2, LoL, SC II, then all the MMO players like Eve, WoW, GW2, etc. All of those use their own launchers that steam wouldn't capture if they never open steam.

On the flip side, I just installed steam on 3 VM's and my laptop; the only one that got a Steam survey was my old Hp 4510s that has probably done a half-dozen surveys in it's life time between all the Windows re-installs on failed hard drives over the years.

 

It is still funny that so many members on OCN don't have an ounce of knowledge in statistics. Protip: The random Steam Hardware Survey is a very GOOD measure of GPU marketshare, particularly GPU marketshare among the gaming population (but still quite good at encompassing marketshare). If you want the absolute total GPU marketshare encompassing all markets, then you'll have to wait for the quarterly reports on that.

 

I'll even quote myself again:

Quote:
Protip, you need about only 360,000 of the 125 million users on Steam to provide an accurate sample pool with only a 0.5% margin of error and a 99.99999999% confidence level. And only around 8.5 million if you want an even lower margin of error of 0.1%. Out of 125 million users, it is damn near a 100% guarantee that at least 360,000 people have done the survey. 

 

Some people on OCN need to go back to college. It is actually becoming laughable.

post #45 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightAntilli View Post

When we're talking about such small percentages, you do have to take into account how accurate they are... I mean, if a card has a change of 0.05% in market share (either increase or decrease), which is quite normal on steam, it means that if they surveyed 10.000 people, they measured 5 cards more or less than their last survey. The margin of error here is huge. Based on the group people you survey, you can easily have that margin of error of 0.05%.

I've never been asked to participate in their survey...
Whether you've been asked to participate is irrelevant. It wouldn't be useful to keep sampling the same people over and over again, so Valve samples the user base randomly. Sometimes that means people might be surveyed 7 times a year, other times never.

Your understanding of surveying and statistics is also incorrect. It takes shockingly low sample sizes to get an accurate representation of the population. If Valve is using sample sizes as large (or larger) than 10,000 people, then those 5 users of a given video card are statistically very significant. Just looking at the month-to-month data is enough to tell you this.

If video card X has 0.05% market share last month with 10,000 randomly sampled people, then the next month it also has 0.05% market share with a different 10,000 randomly sampled population - then it starts to become quite evident that video card is only in 5 out of every 10,000 people's computers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinaesthetic View Post

It is still funny that so many members on OCN don't have an ounce of knowledge in statistics. Protip: The random Steam Hardware Survey is a very GOOD measure of GPU marketshare, particularly GPU marketshare among the gaming population (but still quite good at encompassing marketshare). If you want the absolute total GPU marketshare encompassing all markets, then you'll have to wait for the quarterly reports on that.

I'll even quote myself again:

Some people on OCN need to go back to college. It is actually becoming laughable.
Thank you!
post #46 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanLoco View Post

Your understanding of surveying and statistics is also incorrect. It takes shockingly low sample sizes to get an accurate representation of the population. If Valve is using sample sizes as large (or larger) than 10,000 people, then those 5 users of a given video card are statistically very significant. Just looking at the month-to-month data is enough to tell you this.

10,000 in a population of close to 13 million concurrent users per day (at least Valve reports the latter number). Are you serious? That's representative of very little. Furthermore, we don't actually know how many people are being surveyed.

'murican political pollsters try to justify their polling in the same manner. Sample sizes of 10,000+ in a nation of 320,000,000, with a third of this actively voting. That's representative of absolutely nobody.
Edited by lombardsoup - 10/3/16 at 4:54pm
post #47 of 148
Outside of this forum I haven't seen much pro-AMD banter and personally I do not know many people with AMD cards, so to me these results are not surprising

I work in IT and maybe its just my location , or specific to the group of people I have worked with (or age group, we are in our 30's/40s') , but I probably know 20+ people that build enthusiast systems and wouldn't go near a AMD GPU. A lot of this comes from having used ATI/AMD cards in the past and having a poor experience, some of it is due to brand/marketing etc.

After being a member of this forum and seeing some of the positive AMD stuff around drivers/performance, I broke my Nvidia buying trend and bought a 390 and then Fury X, but to be honest both of these gpu's gave me a lot of issues when it came to overclocking and 'in game experience' ( inconsistent performance and glitches experienced when playing a large library of old+new titles), which simply went away when I bought a Nvidia card again (1080). Maybe I was unlucky but I almost feel that the positive stuff I read on this forum was very misleading, and AMD still have a mountain to climb with drivers. I probably wouldn't go near another AMD gpu again unless there is a major incentive e.g +20%-30% performance at the same price range as a nvidia counterpart

I don't want the above to come across as too Pro Nvidia , just my personal experience .. there's probably people out there with the exact opposite opinion. But I have a feeling many have experienced the same as I have, hence the survey results and AMD marketshare
post #48 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanLoco View Post

Your understanding of surveying and statistics is also incorrect. It takes shockingly low sample sizes to get an accurate representation of the population. If Valve is using sample sizes as large (or larger) than 10,000 people, then those 5 users of a given video card are statistically very significant. Just looking at the month-to-month data is enough to tell you this.

10,000 in a population of close to 13 million concurrent users per day (at least Valve reports the latter number). Are you serious? That's representative of very little. Furthermore, we don't actually know how many people are being surveyed.

10,000 is actually a good size, it should be fairly accurate (we don't know the total). Statistics are weird but assuming the sampling is truly random a small percentage of the total can be very accurate. You cannot think of it with just a gut reaction like that. Work out the math for how likely it would be to have a 1% error with a sample size of 10000 in a population of 100 million.
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post #49 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

10,000 is actually a good size, it should be fairly accurate (we don't know the total). Statistics are weird but assuming the sampling is truly random a small percentage of the total can be very accurate. You cannot think of it with just a gut reaction like that. Work out the math for how likely it would be to have a 1% error with a sample size of 10000 in a population of 100 million.

Valve needs to publish the number of people actually surveyed. I don't understand why they don't do this. It won't hurt anonymity.

Assuming the sample size is large enough, it will shut skeptics up almost instantly.
post #50 of 148
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanLoco View Post

Your understanding of surveying and statistics is also incorrect. It takes shockingly low sample sizes to get an accurate representation of the population. If Valve is using sample sizes as large (or larger) than 10,000 people, then those 5 users of a given video card are statistically very significant. Just looking at the month-to-month data is enough to tell you this.

10,000 in a population of close to 13 million concurrent users per day (at least Valve reports the latter number). Are you serious? That's representative of very little. Furthermore, we don't actually know how many people are being surveyed.

'murican political pollsters try to justify their polling in the same manner. Sample sizes of 10,000+ in a nation of 320,000,000, with a third of this actively voting. That's representative of absolutely nobody.

Some times statistics is not common sense.

Sampling a seemingly small percentage of the population can get you very accurate results.

Edit: I posted too slow
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