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[Steam] Steam Hardware and Software Survey September 2016 - Page 7

post #61 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanLoco View Post

Whether you've been asked to participate is irrelevant. It wouldn't be useful to keep sampling the same people over and over again, so Valve samples the user base randomly. Sometimes that means people might be surveyed 7 times a year, other times never.
That wasn't part of the argument, just a remark from my experience...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanLoco View Post

Your understanding of surveying and statistics is also incorrect. It takes shockingly low sample sizes to get an accurate representation of the population. If Valve is using sample sizes as large (or larger) than 10,000 people, then those 5 users of a given video card are statistically very significant. Just looking at the month-to-month data is enough to tell you this.

If video card X has 0.05% market share last month with 10,000 randomly sampled people, then the next month it also has 0.05% market share with a different 10,000 randomly sampled population - then it starts to become quite evident that video card is only in 5 out of every 10,000 people's computers.
Yeah great, but what if it is 5 this month, 7 the next, then 4 and then 6? How do you account for that? It's well within the margin of error for a survey of that size. Small sample sizes are only relevant when the variance in the results is small. For example if you want to determine nVidia vs AMD total market share, you can, because of out 10.000 people, it would be more than enough to see the share. Market share of specific cards that have around 1% market share becomes finicky already with such a sample size.
post #62 of 148
What do you mean how do you "account for that"? You simply average the result, and maybe stick a standard deviation on it if you want. A number fluctuating +/- 0.01% from month to month still indicates that the overall population with that particular piece of hardware is very small.
post #63 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Steam Hardware Survey is only indicative of Steam users.

This website proves how reliable Steam is:
https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

As for those claiming you need Steam to run DOTA: in China it does not use the Steam client. Thus there are millions upon millions of PC's that will never get surveyed because they aren't running Steam. But according to you guys because they aren't running Steam they are irrelevant. Another extremely narrow minded thread.

I didn't think of that angle, good point. Many other types of polling are plagued by bias: they don't go outside of a certain group.

It is very easy to achieve a desired result based on the way questions are formulated and which people are questioned. Steam survey is no different, it's possible to create statistics by including or excluding certain factors (in this case hardware and software).

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post #64 of 148
Surveying Steam users hardware and expecting it to be indicative of total market share is like going to the DNC and surveying attendees to see how many will vote for Clinton and expecting the result to be indicative of the outcome of the election.....
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post #65 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

It is very easy to achieve a desired result based on the way questions are formulated and which people are questioned. Steam survey is no different, it's possible to create statistics by including or excluding certain factors (in this case hardware and software).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joephis19 View Post

Surveying Steam users hardware and expecting it to be indicative of total market share is like going to the DNC and surveying attendees to see how many will vote for Clinton and expecting the result to be indicative of the outcome of the election.....

So you think Steam is specifically targeting Nvidia users, or more specifically excluding AMD results (since presumably they don't know what card you have when they present you the survey - unless you also assume they are spying on you)? Seems farfetched.
Edited by Forceman - 10/3/16 at 8:03pm
post #66 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

It is very easy to achieve a desired result based on the way questions are formulated and which people are questioned. Steam survey is no different, it's possible to create statistics by including or excluding certain factors (in this case hardware and software).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joephis19 View Post

Surveying Steam users hardware and expecting it to be indicative of total market share is like going to the DNC and surveying attendees to see how many will vote for Clinton and expecting the result to be indicative of the outcome of the election.....

So you think Steam is specifically targeting Nvidia users (or excluding AMD results)? Seems farfetched.

I didn't accuse Steam either way, I just explained how surveys can be skewed easily. We have no idea how Steam survey machines, how they choose them, why the sample size is so small or which geographies they choose. Until we know this is an indication, nothing more.

 

Edit: for example look at Steam OS statistics compared with internet statistics, they are not in line but people here are given the impression that Win Spy's market share is far greater than it actually is.

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post #67 of 148
Of course they can be skewed (although they aren't asking questions, so that common source of bias isn't a factor), but unless there is reason to think the samples they choose under or over represent a given population I don't think you can make a case one way or the other. It would be nice if they released more compete statistics, but I don't see what incentive Valve has to intentionally skew anything,or any reason to assume the numbers aren't at least broadly representative.

Edit: the OS discrepancy is probably due to the business market not adopting Win 10, but until someone comes up with another source of data for gamers or home users, there's not much else to go on.

Edit2: I'd say the biggest issue is the janky way AMD cards are identified, not the sampling.
Edited by Forceman - 10/3/16 at 8:19pm
post #68 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLAWNOOB View Post

Looks like mining is still bad for AMD.
Why would you install Steam on a mining PC?
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post #69 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

In the CPU section it goes as low as 0.01% for 5 core (probably someone who didn't get 100% lucky in unlocking a 4 Core Thuban to a 6 core), 10 core and 16 core CPUs being used (with 12 cores at 0.02%), and in the Total Hard Drive space - Less than 10 GB, also at 0.01%, so they surveyed at least three times that.

I was running late for work and didn't have time to go through all the data - good to know though.

I also didn't account for rounding (e.g. 0.01 = 0.005 to 0.014999). Still, it seems that the sample size satisfies the 95% confidence level.
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post #70 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joephis19 View Post

Surveying Steam users hardware and expecting it to be indicative of total market share is like going to the DNC and surveying attendees to see how many will vote for Clinton and expecting the result to be indicative of the outcome of the election.....

its a suitable source to gauge the gaming community since steam is one the most widely used applications for "gamers" outside of a web browser. its uncommon to run into a gamer who doesn't have steam.

regards to the 480... the one thing that hurt the 480 the most was its low availability at launch. especially with aib cards. i saw a fair amount of people that originally wanted a 480 give up after a month or two and switched to nvidia by picking up a 1060 due to its stronger availability.

overall i'm actually happy seeing the 480's near 0.20% usage so soon. with the low availability the 480 suffered, the market share nvidia has, and lackluster adoption of the 300-fury series, 0.20% after a few months shows strong growth. i have noticed a lot of excitement over amd as a whole. haven't seen this much momentum for amd since the hd 7000 series and bulldozer. if amd can continue to feed this momentum and keep it going into vega and zen (don't let it be another bulldozer), amd can really gain back considerable amount of market share.
Edited by orlfman - 10/3/16 at 11:15pm
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