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post #31 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forum Troll View Post

No way on God's green earth can you legally purchase/build a new PC system capable of playing VR for $1500.

Ok....


http://pcpartpicker.com/list/mJTdbj

Including an Oculus rift ($599.99) and Windows ($100) it comes under $1400.

A VR ready system just for the tower itself is like $650 tops.

Skylake i5 + 8gb ddr4 2133 + rx480 8gb. Yea, no way on this green earth. I can save another $70 and cut the SSD or HDD. Considering it has a near 300gb SSD boot drive and 1tb HDD storage.

And it tops PS4 in performance by far as an overall system not just in VR, too.

But being that your name is forum troll and you just joined I'll assume your name is accurate.
Edited by SoloCamo - 10/5/16 at 4:29pm
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post #32 of 100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post


If you can spend $900 for video games you can save a little more and spend $1500. Otherwise please rethink your financial purchases and get your act together before dropping that cash on games.

That said, in this case a cheaper price also means a cheaper experience. Low res, low frame rate, low performance system. No thanks.

Thats where you are wrong. I mean I CAN do that of course but not many people can. That 600 bucks gap is huge.

That gap gets bigger and bigger when you are outside USA.

Here in Turkey the console + VR will cost you like $1500, where a VR ready PC with Vive or Rift will cost about $3000
post #33 of 100
Biggest issue = 3 waves of pre-orders only lasted 15 mins combined, I guess most PS4 players don't blink their eyes, I still can't find a place to pre-order mine
Edited by CryphicKing - 10/5/16 at 11:53pm
    
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post #34 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

This is my biggest fear. Sony jumping on it without adequate hardware is hurting more than helping. Also doesn't help that the game's visually are hardly impressive. The cpu is too weak and the gpu is not cutting it either. The cpu is still far too weak even with the upcoming Pro model for anything even remotely intensive. It will be far better suited for exploration games w/o much AI or anything cpu intensive where it can let the GPU do the heavy lifting.
What people fail to understand is the games that PS4 can already barely run at 30fps on a single screen have absolutely zero chance running in VR on the system. Don't expect these games on the pro model, either.
If you can spend $900 for video games you can save a little more and spend $1500. Otherwise please rethink your financial purchases and get your act together before dropping that cash on games.

That said, in this case a cheaper price also means a cheaper experience. Low res, low frame rate, low performance system. No thanks.



I don't know why people keep talking about CPU "powers", kernals and development related topics they don't have a clue about
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

What people fail to understand is the games that PS4 can already barely run at 30fps on a single screen have absolutely zero chance running in VR on the system.

Then you need to educate yourself better, all PSVR titles are either 60fps(projected to 120fps) or 90fps flat, a bare minimum standard for all games while still looking great. even on a I5 + GTX970 combo, PCVR's performance is not consistent, regardless that, no.1 issue with PCVR is, most available games are low quality indie titles fail to catch eye balls.


"but PS4's CPU is too weak yada yada" here's the only thing you need to know, most current 3D engine middleware and algorithm are slowly shifting to GPGPU pipeline, some traditional CPU tasks such as AI and physics will be handled by GPU sololy(UC4 for example) handful high profile PS4 titles were developed in such workflow, both next gen consoles were designed with such concept in mind, plus consoles are SOC architecture with customized everything, PC components makes absolutely no sense in console space.

Even as a life long PC gamer only game on ultra high end PC, I find myself to be more impressed with PS4 titles than I have from PC's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

That said, in this case a cheaper price also means a cheaper experience. Low res, low frame rate, low performance system. No thanks.
.

Then you are wrong on every count, It's time for you read the reviews again with your eyes wide open this time, no PSVR games run lower than 60fps, the mere pixel advantage in PC VR is not a worthy trade off for the RGB panel that only found in PSVR, it's the only VR on the market produce least screen door effect, I find it to be a very appealing factor.

This guy reviewed both PSVR and VIVe, @10:05 he did mention even when PSVR screen come with less pixels, but everything looks less blurry and crispier on PSVR compare to vive
Digital foundry confirmed the same


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-sony-playstation-vr-review


"but curiously, PlayStation VR actually has less of an issue with the off-putting screendoor effect seen on other headsets. Discerning and focusing on individual pixels is actually rather difficult - what PSVR lacks in terms of core resolution is offset by the use of a full RGB panel, as opposed to the pentile arrangements found elsewhere."
Edited by CryphicKing - 10/6/16 at 12:44am
    
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post #35 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artev View Post

the nausea thing is the big issue. I got VR sickness using the Gear VR and it was so bad that I was out of commission for a good 30 minutes afterwards recovering.

Gear is not even in the same league as "proper" VR headsets. You NEED low latency & high framerates, preferably well into the triple digits but 90 is ok as a minimum for most people.
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post #36 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Gear is not even in the same league as "proper" VR headsets. You NEED low latency & high framerates, preferably well into the triple digits but 90 is ok as a minimum for most people.

you'll notice ALL VR sets available have this issue, yes it's mitigated with what you stated above, but nausea/VR sickness is a serious problem for VR moving forward that will have to be fixed before the experience becomes what it CAN be.

in the Batman VR game, you don't even move forward, you teleport/jump forward so as to not make you sick - this is not a gear VR game, this is a PSVR game.

http://www.livescience.com/54478-why-vr-makes-you-sick.html
post #37 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by CryphicKing View Post

I don't know why people keep talking about CPU "powers", kernals and development related topics they don't have a clue about

You assume that so many people know little on the subject and yet don't seem to show much knowledge yourself. That said, all the recent development tricks in the world will not make up for the fact that the jaguar based cpu is VERY under powered. They can offload as much as they want to the gpu within reason but this does not take away the bottom line that when the cpu is called, it barely can deliver. I've got a 2.4ghz puma based quad core, and it is dog slow in most tasks. That's 800mhz faster than what is in the ps4 and it's anemic. Sure, ps4's got four more cores to work with but that barely makes up (if at all) the clock deficit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CryphicKing View Post

Then you need to educate yourself better, all PSVR titles are either 60fps(projected to 120fps) or 90fps flat, a bare minimum standard for all games while still looking great. even on a I5 + GTX970 combo, PCVR's performance is not consistent, regardless that, no.1 issue with PCVR is, most available games are low quality indie titles fail to catch eye balls.

Projecting it to 120fps is not the same as a true 120fps. 90fps is bare minimum, correct. What I am referring to is the current crop of ps4 visuals. These games that are 30fps without VR are not going to suddenly be running at 60fps let alone 90fps without major hits to the visuals. That is what I was talking about. People seem to honestly think gears of war, drive club, etc can just be ran in VR as if it's no problem. Go read some forums, people have high expectations out of a system that was weak in 2013.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CryphicKing View Post

"but PS4's CPU is too weak yada yada" here's the only thing you need to know, most current 3D engine middleware and algorithm are slowly shifting to GPGPU pipeline, some traditional CPU tasks such as AI and physics will be handled by GPU sololy(UC4 for example) handful high profile PS4 titles were developed in such workflow, both next gen consoles were designed with such concept in mind, plus consoles are SOC architecture with customized everything, PC components makes absolutely no sense in console space.

Slowly shifting is correct. In the immediate future you need to realize that the jaguar cpu is a very real bottleneck for high frame rates. See the section above. I've got one. They are not powerful, and mine is clocked 800mhz faster. Blah blah, bare metal, four extra cores, etc. At best it slightly does better than mine in real world gaming, and that is not good, not good at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CryphicKing View Post

Even as a life long PC gamer only game on ultra high end PC, I find myself to be more impressed with PS4 titles than I have from PC's.

How so? Low textures impress you? 1080p impresses you? Low frame rates impress you? Cutting corners impresses you? Uncharted is the best looking movie on the system and yet there is plenty of corner cutting on that as well. Sure, it looks good for the hardware they have to work with, but it doesn't impress me in any way shape or form compared to the PC title's in front of me at 4k...
Quote:
Originally Posted by CryphicKing View Post

Then you are wrong on every count, It's time for you read the reviews again with your eyes wide open this time, no PSVR games run lower than 60fps, the mere pixel advantage in PC VR is not a worthy trade off for the RGB panel that only found in PSVR, it's the only VR on the market produce least screen door effect, I find it to be a very appealing factor.

That is where I will give it credit. The screendoor effect after a few minutes went away for me, even on the oculus DK2. But I can see where it could be improved.

However, my point being is that the psvr is likely the end all be all for Sony systems VR. The PC will continue to get newer versions with the updated hardware to support it getting cheaper and of course the newer hardware, faster.
Edited by SoloCamo - 10/6/16 at 6:48am
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post #38 of 100
Needs games, controllers and some kind of treadmill for FPS games. For space sim you can need a HOTAS. PC4 Pro would be a better fit for this though...By-the-way the PS4 is a PC without a keyboard and a running UNIX like OS (FreeBSD) hey a bit like my PC though I have bluetooth keyboard & mouse faster CISC CPU, discrete GPU, 32GB RAM, virtualised environments. I used to run Windows & FreeBSD but nowadays use Windows & Linux. Lets not knock the consolites they have been assimilated, they have seen the error of there ways no more RISC no more Cell, no more MIPS. They have joined the Evil Empire...The PC just gets bigger, stronger, faster...it's the 'Eternal Champion'.
Edited by HaiderGill - 10/6/16 at 7:49am
post #39 of 100
Thread Starter 
I believe Sony could have come up with a better camera and move controllers.

Not many people owns the camera nor the move controllers. Most people will probably buy the 500$ bundle that includes the camera and the controllers anyway.
post #40 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artev View Post

the nausea thing is the big issue. I got VR sickness using the Gear VR and it was so bad that I was out of commission for a good 30 minutes afterwards recovering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer1990 View Post

This is what is keeping me away from VR, I get nauseous extremely easy from just normal neck stretches that barely move my head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by breenemeister View Post

Destiny on PS4 makes me nauseous, especially when you're in dark places. I also get sea sickness on large boats. However, I tried a co-worker's Samsung VR set up and it didn't make me feel sick. Another oneguy I work with who has recurrent vertigo issues tried it, and after a minute, he was DONE. He told us the next day he was out of commission for the rest of the day. He got home and sat on the couch until going to bed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artev View Post

I was so enamored with the GearVR that I preordered Oculus Rift and built a new PC the first time I tried it. The things I tried were from a stationary point of view where I observed the surroundings.

Later I tried a game where there was motion (a simple FPS game) and became EXTREMELY sick. Stomach and head. Had to lie down for awhile to recover. Immediately canceled Oculus Rift afterward.

there's ways to mitigate the nausea and make the experience better, but early adopters may not have the luxury of dealing with a mature and sophisticated system for it.


If the first mass market impression of this is not good, I don't know why make it. We've been talking about VR for more than 20 years and fun has been made of this problem for that long too. Sam & Max Hit the Road, from 1993:




I don't think that VR will necessarily end the same way as 3D TV, but the end-user problems are similar and the end result is that, if it continues like this, it will never be for everybody, perhaps not even to a majority.


AMD's Raja Koduri quoted someone from Google that said that VR represents at least a decade of job security:



And from Nvidia's CEO you hear that it will take 20 years to solve VR's immersion problems:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/nvidia-ceo-good-vr-20-years-away


Quote:
Originally Posted by FatalProximity View Post

These reviews are disappointing. PSVR is supposed to be the introduction of vr to the mass market and it seems like it'll give a bad first impression. Hopefully ps4 pro can alleviate some of the motion sickness with better frame rates.


It seems a bit odd that they would launch the VR product before the PS4 Pro and not the opposite in order to be able to showcase the VR experience in the best possible light. Maybe they want to prove that the older PS4 can do it too and thus be able to target a much wider market, but there are risks, such as the above.
Edited by tpi2007 - 10/6/16 at 10:35am
 
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