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post #71 of 100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artev View Post

900 = ps4 + PSVR + move controllers

It will not be worth that cost if you're expecting it to be something you play every day.

It will for many people...

Vive or Rift + touch controls + at least a 970 + windows 10 key + cpu + mobo + case + PSU + keyboard + mouse + RAM + HDD or SSD = $1600-1700.... (at least)

Of course PC is better performance wise, heck perhaps even better in perfermance/price ratio wise as well. bu 900 is 900 while 1600-1700 is another level.
Edited by iARDAs - 10/7/16 at 2:05pm
post #72 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by iARDAs View Post

It will for many people...

Vive or Rift + touch controls + at least a 970 + windows 10 key + cpu + mobo + case + PSU + keyboard + mouse + RAM + HDD or SSD = $1600-1700.... (at least)

Of course PC is better performance wise, heck perhaps even better in perfermance/ratio wise as well. bu 900 is 900 while 1600-1700 is another level.

I'll say the same thing about Vive and Rift. VR tech and support isn't there yet. It'll be a fun toy/novelty, but dont drop a ton of money expecting it to be your new timesink.
post #73 of 100
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artev View Post

I'll say the same thing about Vive and Rift. VR tech and support isn't there yet. It'll be a fun toy/novelty, but dont drop a ton of money expecting it to be your new timesink.

True... Depends though but I get you.

There are people who bought those headsets and use them a lot and there are people who put them back in the box and did not touch them for months...
post #74 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

So you post a random benchmark and two links that have nothing to do with it for what reason now? And not only that, but cat 12.2 drivers? That driver is from 2012.... literally. Secondly, considering my a8-6410 is a laptop apu with a 15w tdp I fail to see how the benchmark with zero details on the cards used, processor used, in fact, zero details at all, has anything to do with.

On top of that the gpu portion of this chip is limited to single channel memory and anemic. At best they were paired with a dedicated r5 230m which is still far weaker than what is in the ps4 but plenty capable for any game on 360 or ps3. You can not get the 6410 paired with a ps4 class gpu so your benchmark, whatever it's from is completely pointless.

But here you go... I introduce to you the AM1 kabini processor, the 5350. The predecessor to the puma cpu in my laptop. It's clocked at 2.05ghz vs my puma's 2.4ghz and look at that, paired with a gtx770 it manages to do remotely ok squeeking over 30fps in bf4, under 30fps in sleeping dogs, under 20fps in CoH and in a best case, tomb raider & bioshock, pulling 49-53fps average.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8067/amd-am1-kabini-part-2-athlon-53505150-and-sempron-38502650-tested/9

Now do the math here - since these are all clearly ps4 era games what happens when you add 400mhz to the same cpu? Yea, a 800mhz faster cpu over what is in the ps4. I'm not arguing that a 15w tdp apu is competing with the ps4 as a whole, I'm arguing that the cpu side of the apu is very similar in power to the cpu side of the ps4. Again, 8 cores at 1.6ghz is not going to be much faster than 4 cores at 2.4ghz when it's the same architecture. Having 100% more cores with a 50% decrease in clock speed will yield an improvement when titles are perfectly scaled across all cores but you should know as well as any that it rarely happens that way in games due to the nature of most engines.
And that's when I exit stage left. Not going to bother with the rest of your post. It's a shame you claim to have so much knowledge but not enough to keep your clear bias in check.
Actually, he is right about Crysis. It's not THAT impressive like Crysis 1. I owned a PS4 before my rig and when I fired up Crysis 3 at ultra it didn't really blow my mind. Sure, it looks better than PS3 version, but all in all it's mostly meh, feels like a upscaled pastgen remaster on PS4. Turn your head and you'll see butt-ugly buildings straight from PS2 era... I found TLOU to be more polished and visually appealing, and I played it on PS3.
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post #75 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

I understand english isn't your first language but at least attempt to make sense. You have not proven anything I've said to be false as of yet. 120% lab tested? I'm dying here buddy. Who said anything about telling people they should or should not enjoy things? I can enjoy gaming on a potato as well, but it doesn't suddenly make it an equal experience.

But you are the one here sound like you don't enjoy your own platform very much and anyone who enjoy PS4/PSVR would easily enrage you, your broken math and non sense logic definitely won't change reality nor make yourself sleep better at nigh, friend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post


Psuedo math? I'm sorry, you mean correct math? I didn't realize saying 50% clock speed reduction with 100% more cores was incorrect math. Please do correct me here.


"correct math"? you mean, use baseless "self righteous prediction" apply on things you don't have a clue about which proven to be false on every single count? thanks for make my morning,


"bla! its all about dat clock speed and cores"
I told you numerous time unrelated architecture, framework, and application have different power requirement for CPU, on the same multiplates, consoles don't use CPU to handle intensive computing that you may find them to use on PC because these 2 machine were never designed to do so, is horse power a relevant measurement when you compare a freight truck's engine to a sports car's engine? similarly a 18 core Xeon E5 in a desktop PC won't yield better result than a 4 core skylake I5 @ the same clock speed if game games aren't made to take advantage of the cores


Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

http://www.techspot.com/review/1128-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-benchmarks/page5.html

Obviously it is the 750ti that was not cut for the job on their i3 build.. and holy crap, the 7870 class gpu in the ps4 is stronger than a 750ti? Hmmmm. What interesting results right?

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1130?vs=1034
That was my point. I fully understand the point of instruction set.

lachen.gif you do realize it's the X1 they were talking about right? according to your pseudo math, X1 just use a desktop 7790 and a puny jaguar CPU, both are significantly weaker than I3 and 750TI, but and yet X1 pull ahead in nearly all late 2015 and 2016 releases.

750TI vs 7790 FYI
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1130?vs=1035

For the 5th time, different architecture, development environment, and application use their own method to manage power, low CPU power may be a hurdle on PC due to high lvl API and its traditional data transfer layers, consoles don't even use CPU to handle intensive task that you find on PC but hand them to GPU because human programmers give instruction to game's source code to let them bypass the weakness and aim for their strength.
GPGPU computing, if you never educated on the subject, or refuse to at least look up on the concept, how can you understand anything and carry this on base on your 100% fantasy?



Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post


The 5350 is again clocked 400mhz faster than the ps4's cpu with the loss of four cores in comparison. Again, as you've even noted they have to take full advantage of the cores with their engine to utilize the chip properly. Now being that these are multiplatform games that have been fully benchmarked we are talking about how do you not understand that a 2.4ghz four core is not going to be much slower than a 1.6ghz eight core of the same architecture especially when most games are not that well threaded even on the xbone and ps4.

Now being that the ps4 was initially set to only use 6 of it's 8 cores for the actual game and only fairly recently allowed use of the 7th core what does that tell you?

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-unlocks-ps4s-seventh-cpu-core-data-suggests/1100-6432652/




Again, that's where you've been proven false multplate times and without realizing it, both console are keep delivering the performance and visual you "think" it's impossible and keep outclass the PC spec you suggested, as for why clock speed, core # matters less in console space, I already explained the big picture above, go ahead read PS4's SDK document or DX12 document if you wish, GPGPU is the future, CPU will play a lesser role even on PC in the future.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

Now being that the ps4 was initially set to only use 6 of it's 8 cores for the actual game and only fairly recently allowed use of the 7th core what does that tell you?


http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-unlocks-ps4s-seventh-cpu-core-data-suggests/1100-6432652/

Like I said, you are terribly uninformed on nearly all subjects and tend to like conclude everything base on your personal prediction.

Reserve system resource on newly released console SDK has always been a first party strategy for all consoles ever since PS2 era if not earlier. You only noticed this about PS4 because journalist used this as headline on internet to fuel the spec war between fanbois

PS3 SDK update unleash more memory space for developers, you usually find this kind info on console dev community rather than gamespot, bec
https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/219468/state-of-the-ps3




Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

My point stands even further, 7 cores at 1.6ghz are not much if any faster than four at 2.4ghz even when properly utilized.

The 5350 is an example simply because it's the only desktop cpu of the same architecture. 4 cores at 2.05ghz vs 7 cores at 1.6ghz.
And yet a target doesn't mean squat because it doesn't even hit it. I target 60fps with my 290x at 4k too, does that suddenly mean it's doing it?

https://youtu.be/rfRE4i0xHus?t=3m25s

https://youtu.be/jT2NUXel264?t=2m28s

Because your none sense point had been proven false multiply times already, even when you refuse to understand the concept, I still provide you real world examples and benchmark comparsion pull up a last gen UE3 remaster game built on decade old source code won't help your case.


Forza 6's benchmark on a I7 5960X and 32G ram vs X1, a 750TI, a "better" 7870 are all in there, struggle to hit 20ish marks while X1 operates at steady 1080P/60fps. A game requires a I5 core on PC.




before you make a topic on setting, I3+750Ti attempt to operate at medium which is considerably lower than X1, still fail to hit 1080P/60fps mark.






Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

There is literally only so much you can do with a given architecture. Nothing can change that. Cpu bound situations will continue to suffer on ps4, xbone, ps4pro and scorpio due to the weaker cpu architecture they are using. This is not up for debate. They can code it as well as they can to "work with it" but that does not change the simple fact that it is the systems weakest point by far and does hold back the potential in situations that need cpu grunt, and unfortunately there a lot more of those than people seem to realize.


your keep believing all consoles will be "CPU bound" because you never wrote a single line of code in any application to integrate with anything in your life nor you have slightest clue about GPGPU's promising document and proven result, Your source is your "empty belief" which had been proven false from time to time again. For one last time, how devs bypass CPU to deliver amazing looking games while runs great on console is not a thing you should worry about.
Edited by CryphicKing - 10/8/16 at 12:08pm
    
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post #76 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

So to sum it up, you are ranting on about graphics when no one is questioning the gpu in the ps4. No one here is arguing about ultra graphics. The underpowered part has solely been based on the cpu portion of the ps4's apu.

You can always lower graphical settings. However, when it comes to AI and other cpu intensive calculations you cannot lower the settings 99.9% of the time. You either have the power to push them or you don't. AI & physics are two of the main areas that continue to suffer due to the lowest platform the games need to run on not even being remotely in the same league as a powerful desktop 8 thread processor.

I'll just leave this here in regards to VR not needing a powerful PC...



UE4 game development is very much underway for VR... Obviously a tech demo but it certainly requires a decently powerful platform.

No one is saying graphics and fun are mutual but they do certainly go together well. Pong is still fun and that's literally as basic as it gets. But having decent hardware opens uip a whole new world of possibilities. Physics and AI improvements have been stale since 2007.... Most games still sport Physics no better than Half Life 2... F.E.A.R. from 2005 has better AI than many games I play today... It's just getting stale.

Imagine proper physics and truly immersive AI in VR... You need cpu grunt. PC's have it now and have had it. Imagine what a game could be like if it took advantage of even a skylake i7, let alone something like a 5960x at 4ghz+?

____________


As far as Nintendo goes, while I'm a huge fan their philosophy is costing them sales. The Wii U was... well let's put it this way... Mario Kart 8. Everything else was ok at best and not a system seller unless you are pretty much a die hard fan. I've got both a Wii and Wii U as well as every Nintendo system including almost every single hand held they've made. I've even got and still fire up virtual boy once and a while for fun. Yet the only games I actually bother playing on any of them are from the generations that did not lack the horsepower compared to their competition.

Another post base on pure ignorance,

"graphic settings" on PC are just sugar syntax to provide low-med end PC users(or anyone who can't max out) multiple optimization options so they can tweak the game and play in their most desirable visual/performance present. It's never a thing console gamers needed to worried about, as both consoles usually run most multiplats at one setting below PC's best setting.

1. That demo didn't show case any impressive physics activity as above user said, very basic particle generation without deform mesh or compute geometry joints(because there's none), that's something existed in the original Halo from first gen xbox.

2. using CPU to handle physics AI and physics is a thing in the past, the current/future direction for physics and AI programming is to decompose structured independent kernels and let GPU took over,, the complexity is not about power but how to rebuild them into GPU readable instruction, it's not fully there yet but it's slowly moving, all major 3rd party physics middleware/API distributors such as hovax, nvidia(physx), and euphoria etc are all none exceptionally going GPGPU

http://elysianshadows.com/updates/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/cpe790FINAL.pdf

All UC4's impressive physics(show cased on all lvls - rigging, cloth, destruction, mesh deform etc are largely depend on GPGPU)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB0xy74Zrj8
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

Imagine proper physics and truly immersive AI in VR... You need cpu grunt. PC's have it now and have had it. Imagine what a game could be like if it took advantage of even a skylake i7, let alone something like a 5960x at 4ghz+?


3. both rift and vive are exclusive to high end PC for almost a year, and why this hadn't happen already? You problem is imaging too much and never care to validate them nor educate yourself on related subject. in case you wonder what most PCVR games look like these days.

Edited by CryphicKing - 10/8/16 at 12:09pm
    
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post #77 of 100
FFS who woke the forum trolls and fed them? This thread went to crap for no reason.

Why can't we just discuss VR without turning against each other?
post #78 of 100
Give it up Cryphicking. Your wall of texts are looking obsessive.
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post #79 of 100
You struggling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post

Give it up Cryphicking. Your wall of texts are looking obsessive.

The most informative post I ever read, the amount of knowledge and information you displayed truly blow me away, will definable read again next time.


Just wondering, do you say that to yourself every time when you try to escape reality? Heroin works better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopicClocker View Post

FFS who woke the forum trolls and fed them? This thread went to crap for no reason.

Why can't we just discuss VR without turning against each other?

Yup, am calling a mod now to clean up the thread, some people just can't help having massive melt down whenever a console thread is started.
Edited by CryphicKing - 10/8/16 at 9:23pm
    
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