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post #21 of 97
Just a small observation, at 16,000 cpi my graphs are much smoother than your high cpi steps. My xcounts are much shorter, I assume due to a fast but less distance traveled swipe. At 16,000cpi, most people are probably not going to be doing 2+ foot swipes. Actually, the only interest for me in the 16,000cpi setting was due to this calculator:

https://pyrolistical.github.io/overwatch-dpi-tool/

At a certain dpi to sensitivity ratio, for certain resolutions, the mouse tracks smoother and smaller distances. Due to my high sensitivity, I need to set a high dpi to overcome and follow the principle, which may or may not make a big difference but interesting to compare nonetheless.

I'm curious what your thoughts are, and if you swipe less distance at high cpi, does it still cause the same amount of latency?

Here's my graph:

Edited by whiteweazel21 - 10/6/16 at 9:19pm
post #22 of 97
Thread Starter 
latency is something in time. doesn't depend on distance.

your graphs are smoother because you're moving the mouse so slowly that you're staying in the first framerate mode, so you dont get the glitches associated with smoothing+framerate transitions
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post #23 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by qsxcv View Post

latency is something in time. doesn't depend on distance.

your graphs are smoother because you're moving the mouse so slowly that you're staying in the first framerate mode, so you dont get the glitches associated with smoothing+framerate transitions

Argh, I meant to ask about smoothing (not latency). I did a pretty quick swipe, but only used about 9 inches of the pad width wise. So if I am at 16,000, and staying in the first framerate mode, how does that affect smoothing? How would my scenario regarding smoothing compare to your 1,800 dpi analysis? Would I be getting minimal smoothing, or still suffering from high smoothing at high dpi as you pointed out in your previous posts?

Any insight appreciated : )
post #24 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteweazel21 View Post

Argh, I meant to ask about smoothing (not latency). I did a pretty quick swipe, but only used about 9 inches of the pad width wise. So if I am at 16,000, and staying in the first framerate mode, how does that affect smoothing? How would my scenario regarding smoothing compare to your 1,800 dpi analysis? Would I be getting minimal smoothing, or still suffering from high smoothing as you pointed out in your previous posts?

Any insight appreciated : )

You will still get a large amount of smoothing. In fact I think you may get more smoothing moving the mouse slowly. My understanding, which could be wrong, is that these sensors average over a set number of frames so that at lower framerates there is even more smoothing.
post #25 of 97
Nice to see they've finally changed the mouse feet. They still don't look great, with those dumb sharp corners, but at least they aren't ant sized now.

@qsxcv - What exactly is going on with the little board that enters the side of the wheel?

Is that Razer's new approach to wheel lighting? Seems very odd compared to their old method of just sticking a LED next to the wheel.

Is the wheel still removable for cleaning/replacement with the way it is now designed?
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post #26 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by chr1spe View Post

You will still get a large amount of smoothing. In fact I think you may get more smoothing moving the mouse slowly. My understanding, which could be wrong, is that these sensors average over a set number of frames so that at lower framerates there is even more smoothing.

Hmm...well it's interesting. I know most pro's and a lot of people here use the pro settings, so they have big pads and make sweeping long movements. I've always been comfortable with higher sensitivity in-game, so my longest flicks don't extend that far whereas a low sensitivity game might do a foot or 2 foot long swipe. The only reason I'm trying the 16,000dpi as mentioned earlier, is that at my sensitivity it allows for smaller movements in game. Playing Overwatch, WM has 52 fov, on my 1080p monitor, to avoid pixel skipping at a high sensitivity, I would need a ridiculously high dpi setting.

That being said, normally I've been playing with a g303 at 2,000 dpi not really minding the pixel skipping. Another interesting thing I noticed, with the Razer at 16,000, I get much less cursor shaking than the g303 at 12,000 in a stationary position (shaking disappears on both mice when I lower the sensitivity from my default that I use at 2,000 dpi to the calculated lower sensitivity at the higher dpi ranges). It might be related to grip tension and or weight differences, but I thought it was interesting. Perhaps this observation is the result of the smoothing mentioned?
Edited by whiteweazel21 - 10/6/16 at 9:49pm
post #27 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteweazel21 View Post

Hmm...well it's interesting. I know most pro's and a lot of people here use the pro settings, so they have big pads and make sweeping long movements. I've always been comfortable with higher sensitivity in-game, so my longest flicks don't extend that far whereas a low sensitivity game might do a foot or 2 foot long swipe. The only reason I'm trying the 16,000dpi as mentioned earlier, is that at my sensitivity it allows for smaller movements in game. Playing Overwatch, WM has 52 fov, on my 1080p monitor, to avoid pixel skipping at a high sensitivity, I would need a ridiculously high dpi setting.

That being said, normally I've been playing with a g303 at 2,000 dpi not really minding the pixel skipping. Another interesting thing I noticed, with the Razer at 16,000, I get much less shaking than the g303 at 12,000 in a stationary position. It might be related to grip tension and or weight differences, but I thought it was interesting.

Unless your sensitivity is unreasonably high 1800DPI should be enough to avoid noticeable granularity in game. The reason you get "less shaking" is probably the extremely large amount of smoothing. My g303 doesn't have that at all though. There is jitter when moving the mouse, but when the mouse is stationary it never registers counts at any DPI. What are you using the mouse on?
post #28 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by chr1spe View Post

Unless your sensitivity is unreasonably high 1800DPI should be enough to avoid noticeable granularity in game. The reason you get "less shaking" is probably the extremely large amount of smoothing. My g303 doesn't have that at all though. There is jitter when moving the mouse, but when the mouse is stationary it never registers counts at any DPI. What are you using the mouse on?

Well what I did was use this calculator: https://pyrolistical.github.io/overwatch-dpi-tool/

So if I had just for example 12 sensitivity at 2,000dpi, I'd calculate the new sensitivity at 12,000dpi which might be something like 1.X or 2.X. But I noticed the shaking before lowering in-game sensitivity, so at 12,000dpi at 12 sensitivity. It could just be the death-grip and resulting tension I have on the g303 (at rest), and obviously the shaking disappears once the sensitivity was lowered.

But as far as granularity and avoiding it, both mice showed less granularity when following the principles of the linked calculator above at high dpi's; I did test in-game. Due to my high sensitivity, a decent amount of pixel skipping occurs in the 2,000 dpi range, for me. I honestly don't mind the pixel skipping since it's almost imperceptible, in practicality there doesn't appear to be much difference but I still was interested to test specifically with the Razer's 16,000dpi setting.

Like, if I had 2 seconds for a shot the pixel skipping might be an annoyance in terms of accuracy. But when the flick shots are in the millisecond range I'm actually shooting based on intuition rather than pixel peeping.
Edited by whiteweazel21 - 10/6/16 at 10:10pm
post #29 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteweazel21 View Post

Well what I did was use this calculator: https://pyrolistical.github.io/overwatch-dpi-tool/

So if I had just for example 12 sensitivity at 2,000dpi, I'd calculate the new sensitivity at 12,000dpi which might be something like 1.X or 2.X. But I noticed the shaking before lowering in-game sensitivity, so at 12,000dpi at 12 sensitivity. It could just be the death-grip and resulting tension I have on the g303, and obviously the shaking disappears once the sensitivity was lowered.

But as far as granularity and avoiding it, both mice showed less granularity when following the principles of the linked calculator above at high dpi's; I did test in-game. Due to my high sensitivity, a decent amount of pixel skipping occurs in the 2,000 dpi range, for me. I honestly don't mind the pixel skipping since it's almost imperceptible, in practicality there doesn't appear to be much difference but I still was interested to test specifically with the Razer's 16,000dpi setting.

Like, if I has 2 seconds for a shot the pixel skipping might be an annoyance in terms of accuracy. But when the flick shots are in the millisecond range I'm actually shooting based on intuition rather than pixel peeping.

Well if you use 2,000dpi and 12 in game in overwatch I don't think you should even be worrying about granularity. I feel like that site just through in an extra factor of 2 for no reason, but there is no hard and fast rule for what the minimum granularity should be. Your sensitivity is so high I really doubt you are going to be making pixel accurate flicks or anything like that. If you want to worry about granularity you should probably really be trying to get used to a lower sensitivity and not getting a mouse that will work well at 8,000 dpi or whatever.
post #30 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by chr1spe View Post

Well if you use 2,000dpi and 12 in game in overwatch I don't think you should even be worrying about granularity. I feel like that site just through in an extra factor of 2 for no reason, but there is no hard and fast rule for what the minimum granularity should be. Your sensitivity is so high I really doubt you are going to be making pixel accurate flicks or anything like that. If you want to worry about granularity you should probably really be trying to get used to a lower sensitivity and not getting a mouse that will work well at 8,000 dpi or whatever.

Er...well to each his own. While I admit this is my 1st fps in 12 years, prior to that I played many years at high sensitivity at a highly competitive level. It's comfortable for me. I basically quit FPS because I threw away my CRT and the first generation LCDs were almost unplayable except for non-fps games. I'm rusty, but my scoped accuracy in competitive is 57%, or about top 11%. IDK why you need to make generalizations, since I wasn't asking for help in that regard. I'm basically trying to understand the mouse performance, not how to aim.
Edited by whiteweazel21 - 10/6/16 at 10:20pm
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