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[TechCrunch] Sony packs more power into its compact cameras with the RX100 V and a6500 - Page 9

post #81 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking View Post

Nope. That's like saying Gaming computers are a dying breed thanks to more powerful Tablets.
Terrible analogy. Gaming computers and tablets have extremely huge hardware differences that are necessary (inputs/performance/etc), and more importantly they exist for different purposes.

But a smartphone camera and a DSLR camera fulfil exactly the same purpose, i.e. taking photos/videos. The only difference is that DSLR's offer better quality, while smartphones are literally 1000x more convenient and offer good enough quality to satisfy the whole purpose of taking photos.

Now of course smartphone quality won't be good enough for a professional photographer who publishes their work, etc. But that is an extremely niche field, which is why professional cameras will always exist & sell. Just not very many of them.
Edited by Xuvial - 10/8/16 at 12:37am
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post #82 of 100
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Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

Full frame being superior is a myth.

It's not a myth, it is actually better. Bigger sensor = bigger pixels, and bigger pixels are better. Not to mention the crop factor! (or lack of a crop factor...). Full frame is full frame... pretty much everything else is less.

That's not to say that full frame is always better in every way. Bigger cameras, more expensive, etc... but there's a reason that pretty much every pro photographer shoots full frame the majority of the time.
Edited by Scorpii - 10/8/16 at 2:12am
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post #83 of 100
"All else being equal" Larger sensors are better.

M4/3 can have very sharp lenses and provide a compelling product, but the inevitable conclusion is "bigger is better".
post #84 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nvidia Fanboy View Post

The a6300 isn't being replaced with this new model. All 3 models will still be made and sold simultaneously. I do agree though that this could be upsetting to some people who purchased the a6300. They included features in the 6500 that easily could have been included in the 6300 just 8 months ago.

Come on, lets be real.
If you are in the market to by a semi-pro mirrorless from sony, you will not get the A6000 as there are better cameras with better price by now, and the difference between the A6300 and the A6500 at 400$ difference, when you consider prices of lenses and accessories, overall, you will also not get the A6300 if you can afford it, as with a small relative difference.

The people who upgraded to the a6300 when it was finally in stock from the A6000, are most likely upset now that just a few months later, it is getting replaced and it is going to be in stock relatively quick.
This is going to screw up with the A6000 second hand market price, and it is going to derail and price of the A6300 very soon.
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post #85 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

My GX-85 is definitely not lacking in image quality. Full frame being superior is a myth. It really depends on how receptive a sensor is. Of course the current limitation of micro four thirds is 20.4 megapixels, but better stronger censors can be made more dense while keeping the censor size standard. The problem is when you buy a camera with the same censor you can not expect anything more than what the censor can provide.

This shows you have never, ever, produced a picture with a FF sensor.
The difference between two modern sensors, one smaller and one larger, can be huge in terms of details, color, bokeh, light quality.
You can take a picture with your GX-85 and edit it into a relatively FF image quality, but if you take the same image with a FF and edit that, you can get a few steps forward in quality.

Watching on screen images which have been downscaled and heavily edited and claiming a "myth", is when you have zero knowledge of such things.
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post #86 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post


My GX-85 is definitely not lacking in image quality. Full frame being superior is a myth. It really depends on how receptive a sensor is. Of course the current limitation of micro four thirds is 20.4 megapixels, but better stronger censors can be made more dense while keeping the censor size standard. The problem is when you buy a camera with the same censor you can not expect anything more than what the censor can provide.

 

Mate I have read a lot of really stupid things on the internet today, but your post... Your post sits right at the very top of the list.

 

Do you realize that all commercial photography is done on APS-C, FF and MF sensors/film? Especially the latter two

 

Do you understand how noise works? Do you also believe that larger pixels capturing more light thus them generating less noise at any given ISO is also a myth?

Do you believe elemental physics are a myth?

 

Good Lord.


Edited by Artikbot - 10/8/16 at 2:57am
   
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post #87 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

My GX-85 is definitely not lacking in image quality. Full frame being superior is a myth. It really depends on how receptive a sensor is. Of course the current limitation of micro four thirds is 20.4 megapixels, but better stronger censors can be made more dense while keeping the censor size standard. The problem is when you buy a camera with the same censor you can not expect anything more than what the censor can provide.

The GX85 is a great camera from what I hear and read but it doesn't offer any substantial increase in high ISO performance or dynamic range over my GM5 or former GX7 or even the EM5 mark I. I went to San Francisco earlier this year with my GX7 and GM5. I had the Voigtlander 17.5mm Nokton mounted on the GX7 and took several photos of the Bay Bridge on Pier 14. I didn't bring a tripod so I was forced to bump up the ISO to 3200 and M43 just doesn't look good at 3200 for many shots. When I got home, I converted the photos to black and white and it looks far better. A modern full frame camera would've been able to handle ISO 3200 easily. My A7RII looks pretty darn good up to 128000 ISO and I can always choose to downsample the 42 MP image to 16 MP which matches M43 sensors and gain even greater ISO performance.

Full frame being superior as a blanket statement is indeed a myth. With full frame, the camera becomes larger, the lenses are gigantic and heavy, and the prices skyrocket. The overall gain in image quality, however, cannot be denied. Greater control over DOF, far better high ISO image quality, and greater dynamic range are all objective improvements in going with a larger sensor. If sensor size didn't matter, we'd all be shooting with iPhones.
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post #88 of 100
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Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Come on, lets be real.
If you are in the market to by a semi-pro mirrorless from sony, you will not get the A6000 as there are better cameras with better price by now, and the difference between the A6300 and the A6500 at 400$ difference, when you consider prices of lenses and accessories, overall, you will also not get the A6300 if you can afford it, as with a small relative difference.

The people who upgraded to the a6300 when it was finally in stock from the A6000, are most likely upset now that just a few months later, it is getting replaced and it is going to be in stock relatively quick.
This is going to screw up with the A6000 second hand market price, and it is going to derail and price of the A6300 very soon.

Well the a6000 is around $550 from most US retailers which is substantially cheaper than the 2 X cost a6300 and 2.5 X cost a6500. At $550, it offers both contrast detect and phase detect AF which is something that zero M43 cameras offer aside from the EM1. The a6000 only shoots 1080p which definitely is a drawback compared to modern cameras but this thing isn't priced at modern camera prices either. For a few hundred more yes you could get the GX85 which would offer 4k but the GX85 probably has the same piss poor performance when it comes to AF tracking that all other M43 cameras do. I assume the a6000 would be better although I've never used one.

I don't know the sales figures for the a6000 but if it was as such a bad choice as you say, I'm sure Sony would have killed it by now. Sony must be selling decent enough quantities of them to keep the model alive. "If you could afford it." I could apply that to just about anything. I would've chosen the accord over the civic if I could afford it. I could have purchased the gtx 980 over the 970 if I could afford it. The extra $400 for the 6500 might not seem like a lot to you but for others it might be a large enough difference to stick with the cheaper model. The a6500 offers IBIS, severely hamstrung touchscreen, and greater buffer. It does NOT offer better image quality. For some, those upgrades aren't worth the extra $400. I won't pretend to speak for everyone. Different strokes for different folks.
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post #89 of 100
Whatever! Good enough is not good enough for serious photographers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuvial View Post

Terrible analogy. Gaming computers and tablets have extremely huge hardware differences that are necessary (inputs/performance/etc), and more importantly they exist for different purposes.

But a smartphone camera and a DSLR camera fulfil exactly the same purpose, i.e. taking photos/videos. The only difference is that DSLR's offer better quality, while smartphones are literally 1000x more convenient and offer good enough quality to satisfy the whole purpose of taking photos.

Now of course smartphone quality won't be good enough for a professional photographer who publishes their work, etc. But that is an extremely niche field, which is why professional cameras will always exist & sell. Just not very many of them.

Get a life. Its just an analogy and not even worth defending one way or another.
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post #90 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpii View Post

It's not a myth, it is actually better. Bigger sensor = bigger pixels, and bigger pixels are better. Not to mention the crop factor! (or lack of a crop factor...). Full frame is full frame... pretty much everything else is less.

That's not to say that full frame is always better in every way. Bigger cameras, more expensive, etc... but there's a reason that pretty much every pro photographer shoots full frame the majority of the time.

People throw around the word crop factor with a really poor comprehension.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_factor

Should be enough to debunk the myth you've stated. So this is what happens lenses will allow light through, if you're using an appropriate lens for your model of camera you the focal length you will need needs to be shorter to achieve the same effect of or view range of a full frame censor. The same laws of physics applies to projectors. Only at the same focal length with the same lens does the cropping occur. The idea that it captures an image cropped is illogical. You just can't treat a 55mm lens the same way on an FF you would on a M43rd. 50mm ≠ 50mm full frame vs smaller censor, but it could with 70mm = 50mm. Just an exaggerated example.

Also in other words the second you throw a lens adapter or anything that extends the distance of the lens to the body you forfeit what that lenses' specified distance is anyway. You've just crop factored your FF, just a little bit.

Only reason FF is better and not equal to is when you can buy a 3K+ full frame body in cost assuring it's censor density is high, megapixels themselves do not scale well unless the censor matches it. A poor censor FF will not improve the quality purely because it's a FF. Some other reasons to choose FF over a smaller censor is to get a more shallower photo.
Edited by SpeedyVT - 10/8/16 at 7:36am
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