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[theverge] samsung galaxy note 7 fire replacement battery minnesota again - Page 3

post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenFaux View Post

So is your contention that the only people who buy cheap cables are those that purchased the Note 7 or that the Note 7 is less equipped to handle cheap cables? Since, you know, even the other Samsung phones within the same generation (GS7) don't seem to have this problem.

USB-C is a new standard. It's not featured on the GS7( so your main point is worthless ), I've personally only seen 1 other phone have a USB-C connection, and it was straight out of china last month!

Personally, I believe this type of thing happens with every new type of standardized power connector. When cheaper power cords are on sale (5$ or less), right next to the apple/samsung 20$ adapter, this kind of thing typically happens. You'd think that since you bought an 800$ device you'd want the cord powering the device to be at some level of quality.

USB-C can deliver power to devices in excess of hundreds of watts. I'm in no way saying samsung isn't also at fault, they should have had a system in place that can verify that the USB-C cord can do it's job. If apple did it, there's no reason samsung couldn't have also followed suit.

As I said, it happened when apple introduced the lightning cable, but was largely ignored due to the fact that cheap lightning cables that couldn't perform within the standard simply wouldn't work with the iphone. This wasn't a form of DRM, it was a way to stop phones from turning into bacon. biggrin.gif

The note 7 should have had a power management system in place to make sure this didn't happen, but maybe it was too expensive
Quote:
Some non-compliant cables with a Type-C connector on one end and a legacy Standard-A plug or Micro-B receptacle on the other end incorrectly terminate the Configuration Channel (CC) with a 10kΩ pullup to VBUS instead of the specification mandated 56kΩ pullup, causing a device connected to the cable to incorrectly determine the amount of power it is permitted to draw from the cable. Cables with this issue may not work properly with certain products, including Apple and Google products, and may even damage power sources such as chargers, hubs, or PC USB ports.[
-from USB type-C wiki
Edited by Buris - 10/9/16 at 5:04pm
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post #22 of 34
Korean engineering is among the best, their top techniq graduates are head hunted all over..

Surely samsung retains many of those..

It' can't be this hard to keep a battery from blowing up..


MY GUESS, is that the specific cases that has happened AFTER the replacement were perpetrated by people hoping to cash in on the momentum of the first wave issues, and sue samsung for a settlement..


Think about it, it's a great deal, because if you sue samsung, they will literally just pay you to shut-up, it doesn't really matter if the phone works or not..

ODDS are the phone works, and this was done deliberately.. Think Slippin' jimmy from Better Call Saul thumb.gif



It's really hard to screw up on something like this TWICE.. by one of the most powerful engineering teams



An issue like this from an engineering standpoint is trivial to fix once discovered

Edited by tp4tissue - 10/9/16 at 6:07pm
post #23 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buris View Post

The USB-C standard is capable of massive data transfers and also massive amounts of electricity (for a USB standard)...

Unfortunately this means USB-C cables made from third-rate producers are capable of huge damages...
What does the USB connector/cable have to do with it? That's like blaming the 24-pin mobo cable, when you should be looking at the PSU itself.

The USB-C cable is nothing more than a series or copper wires that will pass along whatever is pushed through them. The cable doesn't regulate squat (no resistors/etc).

It's the A/C adapter that does all the voltage regulation, so that's the main thing that has to be up to par.

I.e. this thing:



A lot of people use 3rd party or cheap-o USB power adapters, which are vastly more likely to cause issues (no matter how small) than the cable itself.
Edited by Xuvial - 10/9/16 at 6:40pm
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post #24 of 34
post #25 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post

Korean engineering is among the best, their top techniq graduates are head hunted all over..

Surely samsung retains many of those..

It' can't be this hard to keep a battery from blowing up..


MY GUESS, is that the specific cases that has happened AFTER the replacement were perpetrated by people hoping to cash in on the momentum of the first wave issues, and sue samsung for a settlement..


Think about it, it's a great deal, because if you sue samsung, they will literally just pay you to shut-up, it doesn't really matter if the phone works or not..

ODDS are the phone works, and this was done deliberately.. Think Slippin' jimmy from Better Call Saul thumb.gif



It's really hard to screw up on something like this TWICE.. by one of the most powerful engineering teams



An issue like this from an engineering standpoint is trivial to fix once discovered
Couple things:

You will always have a stastical distribution whenever you are making something with either material/part tolerances or fit tolerances when they are assembled. Part tolerances are easy to pass/fail, but fit tolerances are not since you would have to xray every device, which is costly and time consuming. Thus you will have some small % of the population that is succeptible to failure, regardless of how well your engineering team is.

Second, we have no idea what the vintage was of the replace devices (ie, were they made after the issue came to light or before?) it is entirely possible that the new failing units are still part of the bad population of unit succeptible to the defect.

Saying Samsung is entirely innocent here is silly. You don't know they who story and probably never will.
post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buris View Post


https://www.gizmotimes.com/lists/smartphones-with-usb-type-c-connectivity/6520

There are a lot of Type-C Phones, a handful of Tablets, and many new Laptops. Retailers like Staples are finally carrying some USB-C cables and accessories, and they're quite behind the times regularly. It may not be even remotely close to the market dominance of Micro-USB, but it is commonly used at this point. Not to mention Thunderbolt 3 uses the same PHY, and the newest Macbooks use it for USB-PD and as a data port, some PCs too.

It's not the cable or the connector's fault. It's the battery and/or the charging circuitry. The circuitry regulates the charge of the battery. Continually the battery has been at the center of the issue. The charge circuitry should fail and/or shunt power to the battery if the cable is mis-identified by it's resistor, thus cutting power to the battery. This is definitely an engineering-level issue, and not just in the regards that they forgot an incredibly useful feature, a removable battery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuvial View Post

What does the USB connector/cable have to do with it? That's like blaming the 24-pin mobo cable, when you should be looking at the PSU itself.

The USB-C cable is nothing more than a series or copper wires that will pass along whatever is pushed through them. The cable doesn't regulate squat (no resistors/etc).

It's the A/C adapter that does all the voltage regulation, so that's the main thing that has to be up to par.

I.e. this thing:



A lot of people use 3rd party or cheap-o USB power adapters, which are vastly more likely to cause issues (no matter how small) than the cable itself.

The charge controller and circuitry are still doing work on the voltage and current though. Last I checked, Li-Ion batteries didn't charge at 5V. They(li-ion chargers) ramp up to 4.2v and diminish current fed as they charge IIRC. Yes, a power source with the provided voltage and current jumping all over the place does NOT help, but AFAIK, that can kill the phone and/or charge controller, but not usually the battery.
I've also managed to burn up a $0.99 store Apple copycat by bridging the data pins. Guessing either electrically it didn't meet the USB standard, or forcing it to provide it's max current all the time was too much for it. Phone was fine though.
Edited by DesertRat - 10/9/16 at 9:52pm
post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buris View Post

The USB-C standard is capable of massive data transfers and also massive amounts of electricity (for a USB standard)...

Unfortunately this means USB-C cables made from third-rate producers are capable of huge damages..

When you buy a 2$ USB-C connector to plug into your 800$ phone, and are surprised to see it burst into flames, you might have a mental deficiency


The same thing happened when the lighting connector was first introduced with the iPhone 5, only there was significantly less power being drawn from it.

Invest in decent power cords, folks!

Most third part cords and official cords are the same cords from the same manufacturers, with just a different label on it. Do you really think samsung are providing 10$ USB-C cable instead of a 1$ USB-C cable?
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post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disharmonic View Post

Actually , it seems to me, the damage this will do to their reputation and how that could affect long term sales could outweigh the cost of a full recall, quite likely significantly so.

It is always a calculated gamble.

The cost of the original recall was estimated by 1B$, while the stock drop was 25B$. So it is not like they lost a penny or two.
But, if the recall was successful, the share price would go back up over time, as people will eventually brush it off, and spending 1B$ on recalls would be acceptable, as it overall just cuts out of the note 7 sales already done, but those sales should still cover it.

Now, with a most likely imminent permanent recall and money returns, the stock price will not go back up any time soon, and instead of the original 1B$ they would have to spend a lot more without sales covering it.
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post #29 of 34
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post #30 of 34
Thread Starter 
so samsung has their own version #bendgate problem that results in exploding or bursting fire or sizzling phones
when separator is broken causing two sides to ignite

#Note7BendGate
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