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[UG] Germany Wants To Ban Internal Combustion Engine Cars By 2030 - Page 3

post #21 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

Say goodbye to Germany's shipping and logistics segment of their economy, both of which currently utilize standard internal combustion engines and hydrogen internal combustion engines.

Oh, and attempting to force the usage of purely electric vehicles would require massive amounts of electricity, as does 24/7 sustained operation of their charging stations. This would require more high yield power plants (read: coal and/or nuclear) which would affect the environment.

Pass the popcorn please!

As the article points out, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are allowed. read first?
Doing this by 2030 also gives the country enough time to prepare by building some extra power plants. And with ITER coming online soon, we may be somewhat close to the beginning of the fusion power era, which will mean any electricity needs are easily taken care of.
I also doubt this applies at all to ships, airplanes, and semi truck vehicles.
Edited by EniGma1987 - 10/11/16 at 7:46am
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post #22 of 223
Unless Nuclear makes a huge comeback with LFTR and other gen 4 designs, this does nothing. Burning coal/gas for electricity used in cars is possibly less efficient from a global warming standpoint unless you can plug in at the power plant.

Line losses make it highly ineffective at the moment.
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post #23 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Unless Nuclear makes a huge comeback with LFTR and other gen 4 designs, this does nothing. Burning coal/gas for electricity used in cars is possibly less efficient from a global warming standpoint unless you can plug in at the power plant.

Line losses make it highly ineffective at the moment.

Germany is already committed to transistion completely to renewables though.
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post #24 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Unless Nuclear makes a huge comeback with LFTR and other gen 4 designs, this does nothing. Burning coal/gas for electricity used in cars is possibly less efficient from a global warming standpoint unless you can plug in at the power plant.

Line losses make it highly ineffective at the moment.

Indeed, the entire power delivery infrastructure will have to be overhauled.
post #25 of 223
2030 is very far away.
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post #26 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superplush View Post

Actually my first thought was that they might have high-hopes for ITER being done and offering new insights into Fusion, which would easily solve the rest. Batteries might be just as damaging but at least they aren't pumping rubbish into the atmosphere.

Who knows ? someone has to take the first step in these things, we're still not using Mag-lev trains as standard yet they've been out for a good long while.

ITER projected timeline:

2019 Predicted: Tokamak assembly completion, torus pumpdown starts.[36]
2020 Predicted: Achievement of first plasma.[36]
2027 Predicted: Start of deuterium–tritium operation.[36]

We will not see working power plant until a very long time. Keep in mind ITER is still a prototype, you have to scale up the tomahawk to get better yield and a bigger power plant will probably take a good 30 years to build.
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post #27 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Germany is already committed to transistion completely to renewables though.

Yep, and renewable sources can't even sustain the load at current levels. Now quadruple that with electric car charging. Each car can use the electric load of a small house when recharging.
Edited by KarathKasun - 10/10/16 at 11:16am
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post #28 of 223
Won't happen. No way they'd be that stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

Oh, and attempting to force the usage of purely electric vehicles would require massive amounts of electricity, as does 24/7 sustained operation of their charging stations. This would require more high yield power plants (read: coal and/or nuclear) which would affect the environment.

Pass the popcorn please!

This is true.

However, the point you're trying to make - that it would be equally bad for the environment - is false. Power plants are going to have much stricter regulations than car engines, and they're going to have many more ways to clean up their exhaust. Additionally, the scale is a factor. A larger engine is going to (up to a certain point that is) be more efficient than a smaller one. This is especially true when power plants can afford to make a single highly efficient design, even if it is a bit more expensive, while the same is not necessarily true for car.

To say nothing of the fact that emission-free energy sources such as solar, hydroelectric, and wind are options...
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post #29 of 223
I hope they get their hydrogen infrastructure sorted out. They'll quickly learn just how much batteries suck.

That and they would need to change the way they generate electricity completely. Germany is trying to become the world leader in green energy, but they've still got some way to go before they're generating enough to power all the cars. I don't think they'll be there in 2030.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

2030 is very far away.

Not really, 14 years is nothing. We're closer to 2030 than we are to 2000. It'll come faster than you think, especially if you're a big company or government where things move slowly.

I can imagine 2030 being too soon for a total ban on the sale of new petrol cars. Most people will still drive them for long afterwards if battery powered cars are pushed as the only alternative.
     
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post #30 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by starliner View Post

If you live in a place that has poor solar potential. Like Seattle.

Or Germany?

Germany has a worse insolation rating than Washington...far worse.It is actually more comparable to Alaska if anything.
Still, they have almost 15% of the World's / 50% of EUs deployed Solar panel generation capacity. Why? Cause legislation / incentives.

If anything, this argues in favor of more solar in the US which by comparison to most EU countries is a "potential Solar heaven"



It is a huge mistake to treat the potential tech advances are "limiting freedom" and similar sensationalist BS...we get that enough in political debates.

This is not a "I dream of Mars" mumble...it is far more tangible and beneficial for life on Earth, and the emerging technologies can help not just the developed World, but more importantly the developing World. No need for every country to repeat the same costly mistakes the US and North Europe had to go through to reach the conclusion that IC engines are not the only answer.

I bet you will be able to buy & drive your mussle car for the weekends in 2030...don't hold the World (or your economy) in the "stone age" in fear.
Edited by pcfoo - 10/10/16 at 11:46am
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