Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [UG] Germany Wants To Ban Internal Combustion Engine Cars By 2030
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[UG] Germany Wants To Ban Internal Combustion Engine Cars By 2030 - Page 4

post #31 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Won't happen. No way they'd be that stupid.
This is true.

However, the point you're trying to make - that it would be equally bad for the environment - is false. Power plants are going to have much stricter regulations than car engines, and they're going to have many more ways to clean up their exhaust. Additionally, the scale is a factor. A larger engine is going to (up to a certain point that is) be more efficient than a smaller one. This is especially true when power plants can afford to make a single highly efficient design, even if it is a bit more expensive, while the same is not necessarily true for car.

To say nothing of the fact that emission-free energy sources such as solar, hydroelectric, and wind are options...

You're not going to meet this type of demand with solar, hydroelectric, and wind. The only choices left are high yield, high polluting sources.
post #32 of 223
Getting rid of internal combustion vehicles won't fix global warming, nor will it slow it down. Air pollution is only 1 N'th of whats causing these patterns shifts. Also if one country gets rid of them it won't drop air pollution all that much. Also I didn't read that article but, If I was a betting man I'd bet it's click bait.
Alienware M17x-R4
(18 items)
 
Core 2 Haf
(16 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7-3920XM GTX980M G.SKILL Ripjaws 32GB Model F3-1866C10Q-32GRSL Samsung SSD 850 EVO mSATA 1TB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
WD Blue 5400 RPM 1TB ODD Conversion w/ White Label 2TB Empty / Free Bay Converted External USB 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
M14x R2 10 CFM CPU fan Liquid Metal Pro Windows 10 /w Telemetry Block  1080p 120Hz eDP 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
Sony FW900 @ 2304 x 1440 @ 80hz Saitek Eclipse I Dell 330 Watt Brick Logitech G500s 
OtherOther
Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 w/ BT iGPU disable / bypass 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C2Q Q9550 ASUS P5E3 Deluxe Wifi-AP EVGA GTX 770 4GB Classified Kingston HyperX DDR3 KHX1600C9D3K2/8G 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
PNY 1333 55gb, 320Gb, 500GB, 1TB Corsair H80 Win 7 Ultimate 64bit 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Lubuntu 16.04 x64 Dual 1600x1200 Dell m993s @ 70hz TX750 Haf 912 
  hide details  
Reply
Alienware M17x-R4
(18 items)
 
Core 2 Haf
(16 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7-3920XM GTX980M G.SKILL Ripjaws 32GB Model F3-1866C10Q-32GRSL Samsung SSD 850 EVO mSATA 1TB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
WD Blue 5400 RPM 1TB ODD Conversion w/ White Label 2TB Empty / Free Bay Converted External USB 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
M14x R2 10 CFM CPU fan Liquid Metal Pro Windows 10 /w Telemetry Block  1080p 120Hz eDP 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
Sony FW900 @ 2304 x 1440 @ 80hz Saitek Eclipse I Dell 330 Watt Brick Logitech G500s 
OtherOther
Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 w/ BT iGPU disable / bypass 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
C2Q Q9550 ASUS P5E3 Deluxe Wifi-AP EVGA GTX 770 4GB Classified Kingston HyperX DDR3 KHX1600C9D3K2/8G 
RAMHard DriveCoolingOS
PNY 1333 55gb, 320Gb, 500GB, 1TB Corsair H80 Win 7 Ultimate 64bit 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Lubuntu 16.04 x64 Dual 1600x1200 Dell m993s @ 70hz TX750 Haf 912 
  hide details  
Reply
post #33 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdoublejj View Post

Getting rid of internal combustion vehicles won't fix global warming, nor will it slow it down. Air pollution is only 1 N'th of whats causing these patterns shifts. Also if one country gets rid of them it won't drop air pollution all that much. Also I didn't read that article but, If I was a betting man I'd bet it's click bait.

So much this.

Urbanization, farming practices (including deforestation), solar output, greenhouse gas output... All of these have an impact.

Reliable and easy to access public mass transit would help more than converting over to electric cars. Electric cars generally have the same CO2 footprint as a ICE car once you take into account that the generating station has to produce far more electricity to charge batteries than you ever get out of them.

Until a much larger percentage of power generation is nuclear/solar/geothermal/wind/ocean currents, ICE is the better choice.

This is like "solar freaking roadways", impractical and the results are highly overstated.
μRyzen
(12 items)
 
Mini Box
(4 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen R5 1400 MSI B350M Gaming Pro Zotac GTX 670 4GB G.SKILL FORTIS Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 
Hard DriveCoolingOSOS
WD Green 3tb Wraith Stealth Windows 10 Debian 8.7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
ViewSonic VX-2257-8 Chinese backlit mechanical Kingwin 850w Chinese laser optical 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Athlon 5350 Asus AM1I-A EVGA GTX 750 Ti SC 2x4GB DDR 3 1333 
  hide details  
Reply
μRyzen
(12 items)
 
Mini Box
(4 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen R5 1400 MSI B350M Gaming Pro Zotac GTX 670 4GB G.SKILL FORTIS Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 
Hard DriveCoolingOSOS
WD Green 3tb Wraith Stealth Windows 10 Debian 8.7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
ViewSonic VX-2257-8 Chinese backlit mechanical Kingwin 850w Chinese laser optical 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Athlon 5350 Asus AM1I-A EVGA GTX 750 Ti SC 2x4GB DDR 3 1333 
  hide details  
Reply
post #34 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

So much this.

Urbanization, farming practices (including deforestation), solar output, greenhouse gas output... All of these have an impact.

Reliable and easy to access public mass transit would help more than converting over to electric cars. Electric cars generally have the same CO2 footprint as a ICE car once you take into account that the generating station has to produce far more electricity to charge batteries than you ever get out of them.

Until a much larger percentage of power generation is nuclear/solar/geothermal/wind/ocean currents, ICE is the better choice.

That's the other thing. Wind/solar/hydro require special conditions that aren't always available (and in the case of hydroelectric dams, can be environmentally destructive). That makes each ill suited to continuous operation.

If you're going for maximum efficiency and 24/7 continuous operation at high output, you're stuck with base load type plants.
post #35 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

That's the other thing. Wind/solar/hydro require special conditions that aren't always available (and in the case of hydroelectric dams, can be environmentally destructive). That makes each ill suited to continuous operation.

If you're going for maximum efficiency and 24/7 continuous operation at high output, you're stuck with base load type plants.

Yep, that's why I threw nuclear in there. We have designs for nuclear power that are much more efficient and produce much shorter lived waste, they just don't make sense to publicly traded companies. The current nuclear market is dominated by fuel charges. Things like manufacture, storage, and reprocessing are very lucrative and make the majority of the income for companies who service those plants.

In a plant where you don't require such a fuel infrastructure, you wont make as much money. Therefore it wont be done because the shareholders want profits, not responsible energy development.
μRyzen
(12 items)
 
Mini Box
(4 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen R5 1400 MSI B350M Gaming Pro Zotac GTX 670 4GB G.SKILL FORTIS Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 
Hard DriveCoolingOSOS
WD Green 3tb Wraith Stealth Windows 10 Debian 8.7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
ViewSonic VX-2257-8 Chinese backlit mechanical Kingwin 850w Chinese laser optical 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Athlon 5350 Asus AM1I-A EVGA GTX 750 Ti SC 2x4GB DDR 3 1333 
  hide details  
Reply
μRyzen
(12 items)
 
Mini Box
(4 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen R5 1400 MSI B350M Gaming Pro Zotac GTX 670 4GB G.SKILL FORTIS Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 
Hard DriveCoolingOSOS
WD Green 3tb Wraith Stealth Windows 10 Debian 8.7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
ViewSonic VX-2257-8 Chinese backlit mechanical Kingwin 850w Chinese laser optical 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Athlon 5350 Asus AM1I-A EVGA GTX 750 Ti SC 2x4GB DDR 3 1333 
  hide details  
Reply
post #36 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

You're not going to meet this type of demand with solar, hydroelectric, and wind. The only choices left are high yield, high polluting sources.

[Citation needed]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

That's the other thing. Wind/solar/hydro require special conditions that aren't always available (and in the case of hydroelectric dams, can be environmentally destructive). That makes each ill suited to continuous operation.

If you're going for maximum efficiency and 24/7 continuous operation at high output, you're stuck with base load type plants.

[Citation still needed]

There are ways to store energy, by the way, that don't require batteries. Any excess produced by a dam outside of peak hours can be used to move water uphill, and at later, it can be flooded through a dam. Solar fields can heat water stored in tanks for nighttime use.

And, continuous operation or not, it's still better to supplement fossil fuels with emission-free energy sources. Any joule produced by a dam or windmill is one that isn't produced by coal or hydrocarbons.
Triumvirate
(20 items)
 
Osmium
(8 items)
 
For Sale: [FS] Z97 system: Xeon and RAM
$160 (USD) or best offer
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7-5775C ASUS Sabertooth Z97 Mark 2 Sapphire RX 480 (reference) MSI Low-Profile 750Ti 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Corsair Dominator Platinum - 2x8GB Crucial M500 - 960GB Samsung 840 - 250GB WD Scorpio Blue - 1TB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
ADATA SP900 - 64GB Scythe BIG Shuriken 2 Rev. B PNY Quadro 600 blower Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
ASUS VE247H - 1080p Gateway FPD1960 - 1280x1024 Samsung S20D300 - 900p, portrait Rosewill RK9000I - Cherry MX Blue 
PowerCaseMouseOther
Rosewill HIVE 650W Riotoro CR1080 SteelSeries Rival 100 CyberPower 1500PFCLCD 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
AMD A10-7870K ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+ G.Skill Ripjaws X - 2x4GB @ 2400MT/s Samsung 840 120GB 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Evercool EC-HPS-810CP Windows 7 Pro 64-bit PicoPSU-120-WI-25 Mini-Box M350 
  hide details  
Reply
Triumvirate
(20 items)
 
Osmium
(8 items)
 
For Sale: [FS] Z97 system: Xeon and RAM
$160 (USD) or best offer
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7-5775C ASUS Sabertooth Z97 Mark 2 Sapphire RX 480 (reference) MSI Low-Profile 750Ti 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Corsair Dominator Platinum - 2x8GB Crucial M500 - 960GB Samsung 840 - 250GB WD Scorpio Blue - 1TB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
ADATA SP900 - 64GB Scythe BIG Shuriken 2 Rev. B PNY Quadro 600 blower Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
ASUS VE247H - 1080p Gateway FPD1960 - 1280x1024 Samsung S20D300 - 900p, portrait Rosewill RK9000I - Cherry MX Blue 
PowerCaseMouseOther
Rosewill HIVE 650W Riotoro CR1080 SteelSeries Rival 100 CyberPower 1500PFCLCD 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
AMD A10-7870K ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+ G.Skill Ripjaws X - 2x4GB @ 2400MT/s Samsung 840 120GB 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Evercool EC-HPS-810CP Windows 7 Pro 64-bit PicoPSU-120-WI-25 Mini-Box M350 
  hide details  
Reply
post #37 of 223
I really have mixed feelings about this.

While I agree that I feel like the free market should dictate what we drive, I also know that companies are very slow to evolve because it cuts into profit margins.

I don't think we should continue to use gasoline engines if electric engines provide feature parody.

I also have a feeling that a majority of gasoline cars will be grandfathered in.
Yin&Yang
(19 items)
 
Soon
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4820K Gigabyte X79 UP4 GTX 660 (waiting for new AMD cards) Samsung green  
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Adata SP900  Seagate 2TB hard drive (the power of 1 edition)  Custom WC Loop Linux (various versions) 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Samsung SyncMaster T240HD Coolermaster XT Green switches XFX 1000w Corsair 800D 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Razer Naga Epic 2014 edition Razer Vespula Stax Lambda Nova Classic Custom DIY DAC 
AudioAudioOther
300b PP monoblocks Snell J3 NZXT Hue 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
8 core xeon E6 @ 3.5ghz 8 core xeon E6 @ 3.5ghz EVGA X99 SR?  AMD 390x 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveCooling
AMD 390x 128 GB ECC DDR4  1TB PCI-e SSD Custom WC Loop 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Linux 16:10 Samsung PLS 4K monitor Corsair RGB keyboard with custom cherry MX supe... EVGA 1600 watt titanium  
CaseMouseAudio
Caselabs Magnum STH10 DIY my own mouse Snell J 3 
  hide details  
Reply
Yin&Yang
(19 items)
 
Soon
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4820K Gigabyte X79 UP4 GTX 660 (waiting for new AMD cards) Samsung green  
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Adata SP900  Seagate 2TB hard drive (the power of 1 edition)  Custom WC Loop Linux (various versions) 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Samsung SyncMaster T240HD Coolermaster XT Green switches XFX 1000w Corsair 800D 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Razer Naga Epic 2014 edition Razer Vespula Stax Lambda Nova Classic Custom DIY DAC 
AudioAudioOther
300b PP monoblocks Snell J3 NZXT Hue 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
8 core xeon E6 @ 3.5ghz 8 core xeon E6 @ 3.5ghz EVGA X99 SR?  AMD 390x 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveCooling
AMD 390x 128 GB ECC DDR4  1TB PCI-e SSD Custom WC Loop 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Linux 16:10 Samsung PLS 4K monitor Corsair RGB keyboard with custom cherry MX supe... EVGA 1600 watt titanium  
CaseMouseAudio
Caselabs Magnum STH10 DIY my own mouse Snell J 3 
  hide details  
Reply
post #38 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by starliner View Post

If you live in a place that has poor solar potential. Like Seattle.

Well Seattle is a bad example because WA state gets most of its electricity from Hydroelectric, so the power is still very "low emission", unlike other states which have large coal plants.

http://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=WA#tabs-4

The changes needed to the power grid are the main thing. Would even a state like WA be able to continue providing mostly clean power? I think the proper move would be a steady increasing of taxes on combustion engines, making them cost more and more, and thus giving you a steady ramp-up in electric use that could be handled well.
SUPERPWN
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 7820x @ 4.7 GHz Asrock x299 OC Formula MSI GTX 1080 Aero 32GB Gskill DDR4-4000 
Hard DriveOSMonitorMonitor
4TB Seagate Windows 8 x64 Overlord x270 OC HP ZR27 
MonitorKeyboardPowerAudio
Asus PG279Q G-Tune Topre Realforce 800w Benchmark Dac2 | Audeze LCD-X 
  hide details  
Reply
SUPERPWN
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 7820x @ 4.7 GHz Asrock x299 OC Formula MSI GTX 1080 Aero 32GB Gskill DDR4-4000 
Hard DriveOSMonitorMonitor
4TB Seagate Windows 8 x64 Overlord x270 OC HP ZR27 
MonitorKeyboardPowerAudio
Asus PG279Q G-Tune Topre Realforce 800w Benchmark Dac2 | Audeze LCD-X 
  hide details  
Reply
post #39 of 223
If these cars were so great they wouldn't have to push people to buy them. Truth is they suck, they are only good as a second car for short trips.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k  asus p8p67 rx470 4gb gskill ddr3 2133 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Kingston 120ssd&320  hp  noctua dh14 with two thermalright 141's win 7 home 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
p235h logitech g105 evga b2 850  nzxt source 530 
MouseMouse Pad
steel series sensei corsair 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k  asus p8p67 rx470 4gb gskill ddr3 2133 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Kingston 120ssd&320  hp  noctua dh14 with two thermalright 141's win 7 home 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
p235h logitech g105 evga b2 850  nzxt source 530 
MouseMouse Pad
steel series sensei corsair 
  hide details  
Reply
post #40 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

[Citation needed]

Disruption of natural habitats, river line and coastal erosion in the case of hydroelectric, various bird species deaths as a result of turbines, the fact that the solar PV cell manufacturing process includes hazardous chemicals not limited to the following: hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrogen fluoride, 1,1,1-trichloroethane, and acetone...etc. So, virtually every type of power plant does some environment damage.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Technology and Science News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [UG] Germany Wants To Ban Internal Combustion Engine Cars By 2030